42 Posted December 1, 2005 Report Share Posted December 1, 2005 Hi PC-players!I have another question. Suppose the uncontested auction goes1♣ 1♥3NT = selfsufficient minor with side valuesResponder holds[hv=s=saxxhaqjxxxdxxcax]133|100|[/hv]and is very interested if partner has the ♥K :rolleyes: . Can he ask which sidevalues opener has? What shall he bid if not?Caren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben42 Posted December 1, 2005 Report Share Posted December 1, 2005 Ask for partner's singleton with 4♦ and if it's not in ♥ make a control asking bid of 5♥. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chamaco Posted December 1, 2005 Report Share Posted December 1, 2005 Ask for partner's singleton with 4♦ and if it's not in ♥ make a control asking bid of 5♥. Doesn't this get too high ? Especially if the hand was slightly different and the CAB should be done in spades, is it not possible that the right contract was 5m ? It seems to me that this loses a lot of bidding room:3NT loses 3 level just to show solidity of the suit, and then, when we are in 3NT,responder has to plan to make his asking bid at the 5M level - e.g. 2 level higher... Intuitively I try to save space for slam bidding, to avoid getting to high and/or gathering more info to choose between small and grand slam. But I have no experience with Polish Club :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben42 Posted December 1, 2005 Report Share Posted December 1, 2005 Partner should have ♥K for his 3NT bid anyway. What is he bidding on?Mauro: if you like you can compare 1♣ Precision - 1♥ - 3NT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chamaco Posted December 1, 2005 Report Share Posted December 1, 2005 Partner should have ♥K for his 3NT bid anyway. What is he bidding on?Mauro: if you like you can compare 1♣ Precision - 1♥ - 3NT In fact, I hate that :-) I think the loss of three bidding level should describe almost exactly the hand, whatever the meaning you assign to it, so that responder is not supposed to use 2(!!) levels to make a CAB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42 Posted December 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2005 I feel in this hand above one does only want to decide which grand is best, so perhaps it doesn't really matter if we are already on level 5.Normally I hate it too to "waste" bidding space! Gerben: does opener promise stopper in all outside suits or just values in at least 1 outside suit? (I guess in this case he would open 1♦, or?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben42 Posted December 1, 2005 Report Share Posted December 1, 2005 In all, since with one he would open 1♦ and with two he would rebid 3♦ I guess. But a "stopper" might be just a half one (Qx) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mila85 Posted December 1, 2005 Report Share Posted December 1, 2005 1♣-1♥/3ntshows hand like QJx x AKQJxxx KQ. It's just a practical bid, gambling - 3nt has a lot of chances. Showing running suit is just a side effect.Partner will normaly have some semibalanced not very strong hand. With hand shown I would bid 4♦ (natural, no agreement).Possible continuations:..4♦ / 4♥ - 7nt...4♦ / 4♠ - 5♣ / 5♦ - 5♠ / .....4♦ / 4♠ - 5♣ / 6♦ - 7♦...4♦ / 5♣ - 6♦ / 7♦...4♦ / 5♦ - 6♦.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cf_John0 Posted December 2, 2005 Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 Hi PC-players!I have another question. Suppose the uncontested auction goes1♣ 1♥3NT = selfsufficient minor with side valuesCaren Almost impossible for this sequence in PC(WJ) bidding sysyem.You should make a reference to Jassem's documtent about PC-WJ system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted December 2, 2005 Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 Hello everyone My Precision type Big Club system does not use the decades old Precision auction of 1C-1D-3NT=24-26HCP The Kokish 2H* dual meaning rebid is used for 25-26HCP balanced hands. Responder bids a semi puppet 2S* and opener bids 2NT holding 25-26HCP balanced or higher bids to show hearts plus the suit bid. 1C-1D-2H*-2S*-2NT=25-26HCP in my methods. I also bid 1C-1D-2NT holding 23-24HCP. Regards, Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42 Posted December 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 Thx for your reply, Robert, but I am in this case only interested in Polish Club since that is the system that me and my partner will play in future major events (I hoped I made it already clear in the topic). I am sure that other systems have big advantages, that is not the point, but we decided to play Polish Club and therefore must deal with upcoming problems now. Changing some bidding sequences has always influence on the whole sytem because it is A SYSTEM.Caren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted December 2, 2005 Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 Hello 42 I was merely responding to a comment about the Precision system made on this thread. That auction (1C-1D-3NT) is almost never played by decent Precision players in current bridge. I happen to play a Precision type base system and felt that the current modern Precision type methods should be explained 'as they are currently played.' Please note that Chamaco raised the issue of Precision bidding 1C-1D-3NT holding 24-26HCP. I was not suggesting any change in your methods or style. I was replying to a post that did not give the current bidding of modern Precision players. I did not mean to divert any interest or attention from your thread. Sorry. Regards, Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chamaco Posted December 2, 2005 Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 Please note that Chamaco raised the issue of Precision bidding 1C-1D-3NT holding 24-26HCP. I did not raised it ! LOL The analogy with Precision was suggested by Gerben, to illustrate his point with a concrte example from other systems. Indeed in the version of Precision I play, I do not play the 3NT jump neither as solid suit NOR as strong balanced. I think that regardless the architecture of the system, such an early jump should be EXTREMELY well defined in terms of shape, range of strength, and controls because it consumes so much space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted December 2, 2005 Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 Hello Chamaco My mistake, I knew that I did not start the comment on the 1C-1D-3NT auction and I scrolled back until I saw the comment and mistakenly wrote that you had posted it. Very Sorry. :( I now see that it was a 'quote inside of your post.' Perhaps I will read a bit more carefully next time. We agree that narrow limits are better choices for our bidding methods. :) What others chose to play are the best methods for them. Picking bidding methods is often determined by whether or not they fit your bidding style. Thank you for correcting my misunderstanding. I will try to be more careful in the future. :) Regards, Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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