minimum weak jump with a passed partner

[kgr]

IMP'S

Vul vs NV.

Pass-(1♣)-2♠

You have bid 2♠ - weak jump. What is the minimum you are doing this on?

I did it on:

KT9xxx-Qxx-Jxx-x

Partner passed so opps 'certainly' have game. I did bid 2♠ to make it more difficult for opps to find the best game. And maybe it will be 3NT and a ♠ lead by my partner should be ok then. And the still have to find to DBL me if that is best. The biggest worry is that partner will raise and a DBL gets more likely.

When would you bid 2♠ on this hand?

- Vul vs not

- all red

- all green

- NV vs Vul

- would consider it at MP's

- Never

and what do you need more at Vul vs Not to bid 2♠? Or is it better to play strong jumps when Vul?

[Kalvan14]

No problem with weak jumps, even when vul..

However, this particular hand has too many losers (8 to 9) for even a weak jump.

Partner knows that he can raise just as pre-emption, or in rare and special occasion. But again, I would not jump with this hand. Bid 1♠, it is already a lot :)

[Rebound]

My view is that the weaker your suit is, the stronger your hand should be and the better your suit, the weaker your hand can (should) be.

[Free]

NV: anything goes and my partner knows this so he'll pass most of the time since it might be a psych as well

V: still weak, but now partner may support with a decent hand

[cinvent77]

Let's see what the good/bad points of bidding 2♠ are this case.

 

Good:

- (1♣) - 2♠ uses a lot of space

- partner has passed

 

Bad:

- vulnerable vs. non-vul.

- IMP scoring, especially in light of the vulnerability.

- Qxx in ♥

- not too solid 5-card ♠

- singleton ♣, makes it less likely partner has support

 

Of course it is all a matter of style. If you agree on bidding 2♠ with this hand, that's fine. Personally I would pass this hand: there are too many bad points. Change ♥Q into ♠Q and I bid 2♠ at MP as the suit is more 'double-resistance' and consider 1♠ at IMP.

[Winstonm]

Probably a matter of style, aggressivness, and agreement. I would not bid 2S, though.

 

My reasons:

 

The suit quality is too shabby at this vul.

The "soft" values make my hand more defensive in nature. The Qxx, and Jxx are virtually worthless on offense but may help on defense.

The opponents do not have to have a game. Partner is allowed to pass a balanced 11 count.

The risk/reward ratio is too high.

If partner has a fit, I want him to raise; with this hand I would be very nervous if partner raised to 3S on xxx.

 

The only vul where I might bid 2S would be NV vs Vul, but even then I'd probably pass anything but a 1C bid - over 1C I'd venture 1S to take away some room but would have an apology ready if pard took me too seriously.

 

Winston

[awm]

This is a hand I'd regularly preempt with at NV. The six card spade suit is reasonable, there are about eight losers. In fact I'd bid 2♠ with this hand over any one-level suit opening (well okay, except spades) and in any seat except fourth at NV.

 

However, vulnerable I would not bid 2♠ with this hand. Preempting takes "space" away from the opponents, but the expense is that you give them an opportunity to defend a doubled spade contract. In this case doubling 2♠ (or 3♠ if partner raises) is fairly likely to outscore anything they can make. The heart holding is also a big negative -- if opponents play in hearts this could easily be a defensive trick. The heart length reduces the chance they have a heart fit, and if they don't have a heart fit their most likely spot is 3NT. Why warn them about the likely spade lead?

[mike777]

Easy 2s any vul, could have less, put the pressure on them to penalize you and defend well. I expect partner to have close to nuttin.

 

chicken bridge is not winning bridge.

[luke warm]

i'm a believer in counting losers when preempting... this hand looks to go for 500 at a minimum, and i wouldn't be surprised at 800 or 1100...

 

while it's true that playing scared is losing bridge, the whole point is to try to score more points than they do... nv this is a perfect 2S bid, i just think it's at least 300 points away from being perfect when vulnerable

 

there's even the worst case scenerio of partner raising, expecting more for my vulnerable bid

[Winstonm]

Easy 2s any vul, could have less, put the pressure on them to penalize you and defend well. I expect partner to have close to nuttin.

 

chicken bridge is not winning bridge.

But neither is going for -800 against a partscore.

 

Why give the opponents an extra option when they have good hands? They can double or go ahead and bid their game + you allow RHO to reevaluate his AQx as being golden.

 

It is often right to give the opps a losing option when defending; however, it can't be right to give them two winning options in the bidding.

 

Just call me chicken I guess. :unsure:

 

Winston

[mike777]

Once you agree that chicken bridge is not winning bridge then you need to decide what hands you are willing risk 1100 against a part score on...this is one of them. If you are never going to risk 1100 then this hand is not a problem.

 

BTW partner should know that your vul preempts across from a pass partner are not invites for a sacrifice, they are strong invites to jam the opponents and make them guess at a high level. If you never want to go for 1100 or your partner insists on sacrificing vul then just never bid vul.

[Robert]

Hello kqr

 

That hand is a bit weak by my standards for a vulnerable 2S jump overcall. Maybe at MPs playing against a 'known weak' pair.

 

KQJxxx with all of the HCP in my suit, I might make the bid, however, I would have to judge the other pair as being timid in their doubling.

 

The other pair is 'somewhat more' likely to make game. You do have a six HCP hand and unless your system opens every 10-11HCP hand, partner could have

10-11HCP.

 

The other side also has to bid their game. Many pairs are incapable of decent bidding. It is not all that uncommon to see a score sheet for a slam hand that has a 180 score somewhere down the list.

 

Some conservative bidders also will not bid game without 26+HCP, so even if they have 25HCP, they might stop in a part score.

 

Against any normal pair I would not bid 2S vulnerable with this hand. NV I often make the bid on much worse hands 'if' I am playing MPs.

 

If the other pair likes to double and they are also good defenders, bidding 2S vulnerable is not a good idea at IMPs or MPS.

 

Some pairs play strong jump shifts vulnerable. I do not play that method. If it works for you, enjoy playing it.

 

Many years ago, I did play medium jump overcalls showing about 12-16HCP when vulnerable, but I think that just overcalling that hand also works.

 

I do like to jump more often when partner is a passed hand. My jump overcalls can range from KQJxxx and out to AKJxxx and a side Ace.

 

If partner is a passed hand and I am non Vulnerable, QJ10xx and a 5224 shape is all that I require at MPs. At IMPS, I bid with a much more cautious style.

 

Edgar Kaplan played @ 12HCP 'upper range' style for his jump overcalls opposite a passed parnter. If you played him for a weak hand without an entry, you could often go minus after bidding 3NT.

 

Some pairs think that they can freely overbid after a jump overcall. I like to show them the error of their ways. :unsure:

 

Regards,

Robert

[kgr]

This was the 2nd disaster of the afternoon (See Muiderberg post for first disaster)

I did bid 2♠ with the example hand. LHO gave a negative DBL and RHO made it panalty with ♠AQJx.

My partner had ♠xxx and ♦KQxx. RHO also had a singleton ♦. So when I played a small ♦ to dummy to be able to play ♠ through RHO then LHO immediatly took the Ace. And later RHO could ruff ♦K with his small ♠.

At the end I had to play ♠ from my hand.

Probably I did not play this hand perfectly, but the result was 4♠X -4 for 1100.

(opps could make game)