Who's overbidder?

[adhoc3]

[hv=d=i&v=n&n=saqt8xxh3djt9xc86&s=skxhaqtxdxckj9xxx]133|200|South dealt.

1♣-(1♦)-1♠-PASS

2♣-(2♦)-3♣-PASS

3♥-PASS-3♠-PASS

4♠-PASS-PASS-DBL

5♣-PASS-PASS-DBL//

 

Whom to assign blame?[/hv]

[han]

I don't like 3C (prefer 2S), I don't like 5C (just pass 4S, we have already denied 3 spades), and I don't like 3H (pass seems obvious).

 

3H is the only overbid, so south.

[Robert]

Hello adhoc3

 

Plenty of food for thought.

 

I prefer a 2S rebid to the 3C raise. It might 'win' the contract.

 

That 3C bid lacks a bit in values. It should suggest more invitational type values.

 

The 3H bid is a Queen or so light for that 3H call.

 

The 4S bid was nice.

 

I do not understand 'running' after you showed delayed

 

support and partner passed. There is no reason to run in a good partnership.

 

No harm was done, this pair is not likely to break average, even in a club game.

 

Regards,

Robert

[awm]

The 3♣ bid is rather misleading, suggesting both a better fit and a better hand. 2♠ is a much better call.

 

I think the 3♥ bid is okay. Give partner something like AQxx xx xxxx Axx, which is a reasonable 3♣ call, and there is plenty of play for 5♣. Give partner a hand like Qxxxx Kxxx xx Ax and there is certainly play for 4♥. Give partner Jxxx Kxx Kxx Axx and there is play for 3NT. I think any of these are fairly normal 3♣ raises. Six-four hands with good suits play quite well in the presence of a fit.

 

The pull of 4♠X seems wrong. Surely partner will not expect three spades in this auction (opener had two chances to raise spades, first after the 1♠ call and second after the 3♣ raise). But partner picked the 4♠ game anyway. Trust partner's judgement.

 

I blame north for reaching a pushy game (the 3♣ call was at fault for this) and south for running from the more reasonable pushy game (4♠) to the really ridiculous one (5♣).

[Kalvan14]

S should not run from 4♠X. I agree will all his other bids, including 3♥.

 

The bad guy is N: 3♣ is completely misleading (and ultimately will cause S to run from 4♠X).

 

A more reasonable bidding might be: 1♣-1♠-2♣-2♠-P (or possibly S will bid 3♠ -very pushy- and N will bid 4♠). 4♠ is quite likely to fail (there are too many diamonds losers in N hand), but it is not a completely absurd contract. Just quite :)

[Rebound]

S should not run from 4♠X. I agree will all his other bids, including 3♥.

 

The bad guy is N: 3♣ is completely misleading (and ultimately will cause S to run from 4♠X).

 

A more reasonable bidding might be: 1♣-1♠-2♣-2♠-P (or possibly S will bid 3♠ -very pushy- and N will bid 4♠). 4♠ is quite likely to fail (there are too many diamonds losers in N hand), but it is not a completely absurd contract. Just quite :unsure:

Um. Ditto.

[Fluffy]

3♥ is the first overbid, pass seems in order to me.

 

Would alos bid 2♠ instead of 3♣ but that means nothing towards overbidding.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

I dont like 3C, why not show your good spade

suit, you have 6? Why risk playing 3C in a 5-2

fit?

 

I dont like 3H, unless 3C was forcing, sry you have

a avg. opening bid opposite a inv. hand, what do

you try for?

I dont like 5C, you made up your mind bidding 4S,

why run?

 

I dont like 2 bids made by South, and only one bid

made by North, i.e. South gets 66% North 33%.

 

Marlowe

[P_Marlowe]

<snip>

 

Give partner a hand like Qxxxx Kxxx xx Ax and there is certainly play for 4♥.

 

<snip>

I wont argue with your other points,

but I doubt, that Norh can hold this specific

hand, I think he would have a neg.

double with this one.

 

Marlowe

[Winstonm]

North 100%.

 

The 2C bid in this auction does not show 6. What would South do with:

 

Kx

AQxx

xx

KJ9xx

 

2S shows both the strength of the hand and the suit.

 

The 3H bid by South was pushy but not without merit. All he really needs to find in the North hand is: Axxxx, Kx, xxx, Qxx. This hand is more consistent with the bidding.

 

Winston

[Kalvan14]

Hi,

 

I dont like 3C, why not show your good spade

suit, you have 6? Why risk playing 3C in a 5-2

fit?

 

I dont like 3H, unless 3C was forcing, sry you have

a avg. opening bid opposite a inv. hand, what do

you try for?

I dont like 5C, you made up your mind bidding 4S,

why run?

 

I dont like 2 bids made by South, and only one bid

made by North, i.e. South gets 66% North 33%.

 

Marlowe

The problem is that 3♣, while non-forcing, is certainly invitational and forward going. This makes S willing to show hearts (as a step toward 3N).

 

A possible hand for N, to justify his bidding: QJxx, xx, KJxx, Axx. Here you can have a shoot at 3N. There are obviously a lot of other hands (unbalanced too) which might aim to a game contract. Again, N is showing something like 10 to 12 HCP, and a fit in clubs. Both features are quite in contrast with what he is really holding.

 

There is quite a widespread habit to raise pard with Hx, as a default bid. For my taste, such a raise would be a truly last resort, and I would do a lot to avoid it. Here N does not even have Hx in clubs :o

[Fluffy]

3♣ doesn't show any kind of extra strenght, you can double with invitational values.

[P_Marlowe]

3♣ doesn't show any kind of extra strenght, you can double with invitational values.

Depends on the meaning of 2NT.

 

Marlowe

[Guest Jlall]

3C for me is just competitive (how else do we bid 3C with a 7 count and 3 clubs?) so it was not an overbid, just a misbid. The 3H bidder thought 3C was an invite, so in that context he was not overbidding, he just did not know what partner meant his 3C bid as.

[Al_U_Card]

North for the 3C bid.......totally senseless with the 2S alternative available.

[Winstonm]

3C for me is just competitive (how else do we bid 3C with a 7 count and 3 clubs?) so it was not an overbid, just a misbid. The 3H bidder thought 3C was an invite, so in that context he was not overbidding, he just did not know what partner meant his 3C bid as.

Yes, but doesn't it also mean you have some reason to bid? Not all 7-counts would be worth a 3 club bid. Opener was forced to rebid and now you can show the relative merits of your hand with a 3 club bid or a pass.

 

I would think 3 clubs has to include a fairly wide range of holdings including ones that might produce game - prudence should prevent further bidding so as not to discourage the right 7-count from bidding in the future, though.

 

Winston

[Guest Jlall]

Yes, but doesn't it also mean you have some reason to bid?

Having 3 clubs is reason enough for me to bid in this situation. Not to be accused of being a LOTT disciple, but the 3C bid eats up room for the opps and competes 3 over 2 when you usually have 9 trumps (occasionally 8 with the hand type you gave earlier). It would be very unusual for my partner to bid again over this, so I wouldn't be worried about misleading him.

[beatrix45]

:angry: Where on earth did North's 3♣ bid come from? With six HCP and a very fine spade suit, the obvious call is 2♠. After that, is should be easy to subside in two or three spades.

 

Given the 3♣ misbid, South promptly took hold of the misbidding bit. 3♣ was NOT a game try, so 3♥ was a moderate+ overbid. After that, everything just got ugly. Two bidding errors, one (3♣) serious, laid the predicate for the ensuing nightmare. No further blame can be assigned, imo.