Super-fit

[Kalvan14]

[hv=d=n&v=n&s=s5h65dkt87654ca52]133|100|Scoring: MP

1D-(1S)-??[/hv]

 

Surprise, surprise.

System is 2/1 (better minor)

[mike777]

5D

 

Game try.

[mikeh]

5♦, altho I admit that I would be leery of this if our style was to open 1♦ on 4=4=3=2 (mine is to open those 1♣ to enhance the integrity of the 1♦ bid, at the cost of further harming the already questionable integrity of the 1♣ bid). I'd do it anyway... make the opps guess.

[Winstonm]

If I'm going to bid 5D I might as well use maximum room and splinter with 4S along the way - who knows, partner may hold: xxxx, Ax, Axxxx, KQ. If we get too high because of the splinter it may well be a profitable sacrifice anyway.

 

Winston

[kenrexford]

These are often five-level decision bids, and perhapds 6-L. So, I throw the game off with a cue of 2S. Pard can handle misreading my HCP strength better than the opponents.

[Robert]

Hello everyone

 

Since you are prepared to bid to the 5D level, why not blow a little dirt into the other pairs eyes. Bid 2S as a limit+ raise. If partner had a spade stopper try 3NT.

 

The other pair might think that they have defense and defend 3NT. Axx of diamonds plus a spade stopper makes 3NT a fair contract. Opening bids often have more values than a spade stopper and the Ace of diamonds.

 

If your little plot fails, you can always bid 5Ds over their 4S bid.

 

This auction should cause the other pair to doubt your bids for a very long time.

Having the other pair wondering about your normal bids should be of some advantge in the future. :(

 

Regards,

Robert

[Kalvan14]

The only case in which you might find 3 diamonds in front of you is if he has 4-4-3-2 exactly. Reasonably you should assume a 4-card suit.

 

I am surprised by the number of 2♠. I would have expected that 3♠ (Western Q) would be more effective if you target a 3NT contract. 2♠ is a less interdictive bid, and might not convey the message. There is the non-irrelevant issues of who has the hearts.

 

In any case:

• over 2S, LHO bids 3H and CHO passes
  
• over 3S, LHO doubles and partner bids 3NT
  

[han]

5♦, no doubt in my mind.

 

 

I strongly dislike the methods. (I want 3S to be a splinter and 3D to be a preempt)

 

I also dislike the 2S and 3S choices given any method. Assuming that we are playing against decent opponents, I don't want to give them room to figure out what is going on. I don't think that my cuebid is going to fool them. I think that when the bidding comes back to me, they have bid 4S and partner may have doubled.

[mikeh]

These are often five-level decision bids, and perhapds 6-L.  So, I throw the game off with a cue of 2S.  Pard can handle misreading my HCP strength better than the opponents.

Heaven protect me from partners who think like this. The opps bounce to 4♠ (perhaps they've heard that one about trusting partner) and my partner doubles. My call. Not in my lifetime, thank you

[Kalvan14]

[hv=d=n&v=n&n=sqjxhqjtdaj9xcqtx&s=sxhxxdktxxxxxcaxx]133|200|Scoring: MP

1D-(1S)-??[/hv]

 

Well, 5♦ was also my choice.

It is quite unfortunate that CHO's hand was not exactly suited for a 5-level contract. You will note that 3NT is 99% a laydown (ok, there is always the chance of LHO playing a small heart for RHO, who returns the ♠T; after smothering the 1st small honor, LHO plays a small club :D ). In practical life, 3NT IS a laydown.

5♦ is one down, next hand.

 

Thinking about it afterwards, I almost became convinced that 3♠ (asking to bid 3N with a spade stopper) is the best bid. And please note that I am not spoofing: if pard bids 3N, I will be perfectly happy to play it.

[000002]

alter ♣ Ace to ♦, 3♠ for stopper is good

[Gerben42]

Tell me again what is the difference between a Western and Eastern cuebid? 3♠ just asks for a stopper for 3NT, right?

 

Please in the future just write "ask for stopper" or "splinter" or whatever :D

[000002]

3♣ leap almost shows a super-double-fit in minors,so 3♠ for stopper is possible . As you like, i wish this is a splinter show as you.

[Fluffy]

What is that western queen stuff?, Can't I splinter?

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

3D inv.

 

Over 3NT from partner I bid 4D,

which should the message get

accross, that I want to invite 5D.

 

I am not sure, that 4D is preemptiv,

when 3D is inv.

I am willing to bid 5D, but I am not sure

it makes, and the opponents may not find

a bit over 3D / 4D.

 

Marlowe

[bridge2k]

3S, then back to D contract.

 

This is to show a distributional shape hand with a long D suit. 2S is more based on strength.

[Al_U_Card]

I liked 2S at MP. (Sorry MikeH) Your hand has lots of potential and they will find their Major suit anyway but might not bid it if they think you have a legit limit raise on hcp. Pard may also have 4432 so 3NT may be the only spot that plays.

[Robert]

Hello kalvan14

 

I count seven(7) diamonds in my hand. I am just guessing that the odds shift holding seven cards in partners suit, when you decide what partner might hold.

 

Towards the bottom of this post I cite part of the results from Mr. Frosts report on suit holdings from a five year period of World Championship play taken from his classic book(Bridge Odds Complete)

 

If you held a diamond void, I expect that partner will not nearly have(as often) that 4432 pattern.

 

My major concern is does partner hold the Diamond Ace? If he does, whether he holds Axx or Axxx I will fee better about the chances of 'running' the D suit.

 

I think I saw this type of bid by the Chip Martel/Lew Stansby partnership. If they use a 2S* bid here, it is a good reason for it to be my choice of bids.

 

My guess is that the top level players like to add a bit of bluff into their bidding.

After you make this kind of bid, the other pairs will regard your normal bidding with some distrust. I think that it is a good idea to create doubt in the other pairs minds. :D

 

I also like play a jump to 3S as a splinter 'showing a diamond raise' as another person suggested in their post.

 

Bridge Odds Complete, Frederick H. Frost, page 20, lists the odds of 7-3 and 7-4 suit holdings.

 

He also lists, "The Summary Tabulation of the Trump Distribution between partnerships wining the Auction at Suit Contracts in World Championship Play during the five years of 1955-1959, U.S.A. vs Europe.

 

The results listed show sixteen(16) total 7-3 suit fits and only one(1) suit divided

7-4 according to Mr. Frost's book.

 

My guess is that a 7-3 fit is somewhat more likely than a 7-4 even playing 2/1 methods that only open 1D holding 3 cards with 4432 pattern. :D

 

Regards,

Robert

[ArcLight]

I bid 3♠ asking for a stopper since that was the choice presented in the question.

 

1) Do we really have enough to take 11 tricks? The 4♠ splinter commits us to the 5 level.

 

2) I think 3NT has a shot, and if pard doesn't have a stopper he can still bid 4♦

[Robert]

Hello ArcLight

 

1. If you reread the first post, it says 1D-(1S)-?

 

He later said, after the hand, he considered the 3S bid to be the best bid.

 

1. a) A number of people(including myself) suggested that they want(or use) a 3S bid to be a splinter raise showing diamond support.

 

:P My partners rush to bid either 2NT or 3NT holding a spade stopper over my cuebid in this auction. This is a fairly normal reaction by many(most) bridge players above the novice level. Many novices would also bid 2NT because they had not idea what to bid over a '2S' cuebid. :)

 

2. I do not know if we can take 11 tricks in diamonds. I am interested in making nine tricks in 3NT. If partner bids 2NT I am bidding 3NT. If he bids 3NT, I will pass.

 

2. Wow! We agree that partner may make 3NT. :)

 

Regards,

Robert

[Robert]

Hello MikeH

 

I saw the Chip Martel-Lew Stansby partnership use the same bidding holding virtually the same dummy. 1m-(1M)-2M* as a limit+ without 10+HCP more like an Ace and a King. They might have had a stray Jack. 7-8HCP and long minor support.

 

They do play a KS type system with a weak NT so there 1m opening shows a long minor or a balanced hand 15+.

 

If you are a better player than the Chip Martel-Lew Stansby partnership, may I have your autograph?

 

Hello Fluffy Yes! You can splinter with 3Ss! Bid 1D-(1S)-2S* as a limit+ D raise.

 

Regards,

Robert

[Kalvan14]

Robert,

3♠ is not a splinter raise in diamonds. 3♠ (as Western Q bid) asks partner to bid 3N with a stopper ib spades (if LHO had overcalled in hearts, the Western Q would have been 3♥). It is just a coincidence that I have diamonds, and/or a shotness in spades. My hand might have been: xx xx xx AKQTxxx.

Regards

[ArcLight]

> If you reread the first post, it says 1D-(1S)-?

>He later said, after the hand, he considered the 3S bid to be the best bid.

 

The poll clearly says "3 Spades - Western Cue bid". So the question needs to be answered using the methods of the partnership, not your own methods. However, its ok to mention why you would rather use a different meaning for a bid.

 

>1. a) A number of people(including myself) suggested that they want(or use) a 3S bid to be a splinter raise showing diamond support.

 

Thtas irrelevant to the question, because its not the method used by that partnership. Regardless of what YOU think of their methods, the person was asking what the best bid was in the context of their partnership, not yours.

 

I happen to agree with you that 3 Spades is better used as a splinter bid. But it wasn't one of the choices.

[Free]

I was thinking of bidding 3NT on the way to 5♦ to mislead opps if they end up in 5♠, partner however will probably let it there and might go down on unfavorable ♠ layout... If they double I'll bid 5♦ i guess.

[mikeh]

Hello MikeH

 

I saw the Chip Martel-Lew Stansby partnership use the same bidding holding virtually the same dummy.  1m-(1M)-2M* as a limit+ without 10+HCP more like an Ace and a King.  They might have had a stray Jack.  7-8HCP and long minor support.

 

They do play a KS type system with a weak NT so there 1m opening shows a long minor or a balanced hand 15+.

 

If you are a better player than the Chip Martel-Lew Stansby partnership, may I have your autograph? 

 

You missed my point. I criticized your earlier post not because of your methods, but your philosophy. If your agreed style counts this as a limit raise, then show it as such. You, however, posted that your methods required more hcp for a limit raise, but that you intended to mislead your partner because he would be better able to work out that you had distorted your hand than would the opponents. I was pointing out that intentionally misleading partner in a constructive auction was something that I never want my partners to do.

 

In the context of a KS method (which is NOT the method posted), upgrading this hand to a limit raise makes considerable sense, since there is a significant chance that 3N is correct and/or that they cannot both bid and make 4♠.

 

In the 2/1 'std' post, then one must choose between a slow route, preserving the chances of 3N or the blast, catering to the opps having a good 4♠ contract and/or 5♦ being as good as or better than 5♦.

 

Having played against Martel-Stansby and having read many, many of their matches in the BW, I think it is safe to say that they do not actively mislead each other in constructive auctions.