Maximum Pass.

[Winstonm]

[hv=d=n&v=b&s=sj4hkj85d843c8742]133|100|Scoring: IMP

North deals: Playing 2/1 with fairly sound openings and responses and inverted minors.

 

1♣p p Dble

1S P ?

 

How much hand do you think partner has? What bid do you make and for what reason?[/hv]

[han]

I expect partner to have a decent hand (nice 15 pts should be enough) with at least 4-5 in the blacks. I would bid 3C, which is both preemptive and more encouraging than a "forced" 2C.

 

Now that partner has shown the black suits this hand is not that great.

[pbleighton]

2C.

 

Pd could have a dead minimum - if he is 4333 with three small clubs do you expect him to pass?

 

Peter

[mike777]

[hv=d=n&v=b&s=sj4hkj85d843c8742]133|100|Scoring: IMP

North deals: Playing 2/1 with fairly sound openings and responses and inverted minors.

 

1♣p p Dble

1S P ?

 

How much hand do you think partner has?  What bid do you make and for what reason?[/hv]

Whether sound or lite openings, I respond 1H and get this hand off my chest.

 

1c=p=1h=p

1s=p=2c easy now if not play xyz or 2 way checkback, if so then now you got to choose between pass, 1nt or 3clubs. I would pick 1nt but......

 

1nt should be a cute Vul contract across from:

Kxxx

xx

Jxx

AKxx

[whereagles]

If pard is expected to have a 5-4 then 3♣ is par. Otherwise 1NT. I do have a max passed hand after all.

[Gerben42]

Agree with pass. 3♣ now, this is not catching up but just recognizing that for your pass you have a maximum and a good fit.

[P_Marlowe]

2C

 

No idea, what partner has and I dont

care, as long as he is 4-4.

I will compete to 3C, but maybe I buy

the contract with 2C.

 

The points is: Do we have game?

No, he would have opened stronger,

or rebid stronger, so why do I need to

jump or solve riddles. Give preferences

and wait how it develops.

 

Marlowe

[P_Marlowe]

2C.

 

Pd could have a dead minimum - if he is 4333 with three small clubs do you expect him to pass?

 

Peter

Yes, at least if he is 12-14.

 

Marlowe

[Robert]

Hello everyone

 

I would hold back a bit before leaping to 3Cs. Even 4-4 fits with AKxx in partner's hand will have a loser and his 4234 or 4324 hand would still have seven losers 'if' he is as good as AK AK.

 

I hope that the same people that leap to 3Cs are all playing a system where partner 'always' holds at least 4+ clubs. If he has some 3 card club holding, playing a 3C contract may give him ulcers. Qxx opposite xxxx :(

even AJxx opposite xxxx is no great prize.

 

Your 5HCP consist of a king and two Jacks.

 

I trust that your KJxx of hearts should keep overtricks down if the other pair bids hearts. Your four(?) card club support is a bit thin in honors. Honors in combination tned to increase in value.

 

Entry considerations might also be a problem.

 

Partner could have a decent hand and a 3C club might take away the bidding room that he needs to explore. Over a 2C raise, he can bid out his shape. If he shows a 4315 type, I will put the metal to the metal. If he shows a 4135 type, we might already be too high.

 

Partner might just be 'showing us a good lead' AKQx xx Q10x J10xx might want to duck out of clubs and into a fairly robust spade suit.

 

If your system methods indicate that partner has 4S and 5C everything should be fine. But are you sure that this treatment still holds after 1C-p-p ?

 

I would be interested in bidding 1S with AKJ10 xx K10x Jxxx as a possible lead directing bid or perhaps just to get in the way of red suit bids by the other pair.

 

Bidding a 4 card spade suit enables partner(you) to raise with 4 card support. A

2 spade contract might win all of the marbles for this hand. If opener is not allowed to show a good 4 card suit, how do we find our 4-4 spade fit?

 

System considerations would apply here. Playing KS I would be showing 15+ HCP with this auction. I might also be 4333 or 4234 or 4324 shape as well as with long clubs.

 

Playing my normal methods, a Big Club style. I would not have passed a 1C opening. :(

 

Regards,

Robert

[Fluffy]

3♣, that's where we belong with 9 trumps, or so I heard.

[pbleighton]

"Yes, at least if he is 12-14."

 

Why? This is suicide - you have three small trumps and a takeout double has been passed for penalty - why on earth would you sit still for a sure bad outcome? 1S may get thumped, but it's unlikely to be worse than 1C, and may well be better, or not doubled, or taken out by the opps.

 

Peter

[Kalvan14]

Scary hand. 1♣ doubled was taken out by opener to 1♠, and you want to jump to 3♣?

The 5 points you hold may not bring a trick, and your fit in ♣ consists of 4 small ones.

IMO best bid might be passing 1♠, and going back to 2♣ if oppos double for penalty.

[000002]

Alter ♥ k+j to Ace, propose 3♣ leap.

 

and: 1) a cue-bid 2♦ --mild invitation with black ACE ;

2) 2♥ cue-bid ---intense game with black Ace & doubleton ♠ & ♣ Jack

[han]

"Yes, at least if he is 12-14."

 

Why? This is suicide - you have three small trumps and a takeout double has been passed for penalty - why on earth would you sit still for a sure bad outcome? 1S may get thumped, but it's unlikely to be worse than 1C, and may well be better, or not doubled, or taken out by the opps.

 

Peter

You misread the auction Peter.

[Winstonm]

Good discussion thus far. Now the question is what do you believe partner should have for his 1S bid in this auction - remember, the double is only a balancing double and as such doesn't have to hold all that much.

 

If fact, a number of bids in this auction need defined: what are:

Redouble.

1D/H/S

2C

3C

 

Winston

[Finch]

Clearly from the replies so far this becomes a matter for partnership agreement.

 

I play that 1D/H/S all promise 5(+) clubs and usually 4 of the suit bid (a 65 might well jump unless super-minimum).

 

Redouble is usually 18-19 balanced, inviting partner to compete.

 

2C shows good clubs, no extra values.

3C shows a very good hand with long clubs.

 

You missed out 1NT. What's the difference between redouble and 1NT?

[Fluffy]

1♠ shows a 2 suiter hand, wich means at least 5♣s.It doesn't show much more.

 

Opener psyches 3 card majors on this bidding quite frequently, but you shouldn't take it into consideration when making your bid.

[inquiry]

2♣. While I have four clubs (good), I have KJ of ♥, which are both badly placed on this auction, and should rate to be less than useful for parnter (sure, he could have Qx or Qxx of ♥, but he could have x or void too... I expect him to be 4-5 or 4-6 and strong, but my hand is not good for us here.

[joker_gib]

1♠ shows a 2 suiter hand, wich means at least 5♣s.It doesn't show much more.

I agree !

 

That's why I prefer 1NT = 18-19 bal and Rdbl = points unbalanced

 

And I'd bid 2♣

[Al_U_Card]

I like 1NT (for the H lead) and pard can remove to 2C as he will "know" that I have at least 2S cards and at least 3C cards and less than 5 hcp.

[Winstonm]

Clearly from the replies so far this becomes a matter for partnership agreement.

 

I play that 1D/H/S all promise 5(+) clubs and usually 4 of the suit bid (a 65 might well jump unless super-minimum).

 

Redouble is usually 18-19 balanced, inviting partner to compete.

 

2C shows good clubs, no extra values.

3C shows a very good hand with long clubs.

 

You missed out 1NT. What's the difference between redouble and 1NT?

I agree in principal. There must be some reason to remove and the most logical reason is a good hand. 1C/H/S make most sense as unbalanced and strong enough to compete opposite a passing partner. 1N traditionally shows 18-19 balanced. Redouble, IMO, should be the strongest of all bids, showing in essense a powerful playing hand unsuited to a 2C opener, either because of HCP are not there or the shape is awkward for 2C - AKxx, AKxx, void, AQxxx - along those lines. IMO, the redouble should in essence say, if you have a 5-crd suit that fits with my hand we probably have game.

 

I'm not much of a believer in using redouble as a rescue here - if you have opened on 4423 pattern you aren't likely to find a better fit anyway, and partner can still pull if he has shortness. And sometimes, the cream you in 1C doubled.

 

OH, well. Next hand.

 

Winston

[mikeh]

What partner shows is a matter of style/agreement. For example, I play that 1♣ could be 4=4=3=2 (1♦ openers promise 4+), and I play that redouble shows that hand, while 1♠ shows an unbalanced hand. Without prior discussion, the question of what partner shows is essentially meaningless :D

 

No matter what he shows, I have underbid at my first call (I cannot imagine passing with this hand), but I am actually happy that I did so. My hand is not worth much here, with xxxx of ♣ and ♥ values that are probably not worth their initial valuation: partner is probably short and even if not, there is an increased likelihood, now, that the AQ are sitting over my cards.

 

I am content to bid 2♣.

 

Try to imagine a hand on which game has a play, consistent with the auction, and on which partner cannot/will not make another move.

 

AKxx Qx x AKxxxx looks ok, but where are the ♦'s? Someone should have been bidding that suit somewhere. And even if he holds that improbable (on the auction) hand, will 3♣ get him to go to game? How does he know that your red suits are not reversed, where game is silly?

 

When we are guessing about partner's hand, swing low. When we have already made an underbid (having decided, apparently, that this was not a response) remain consistent with that valuation unless and until you receive sufficient clear evidence to warrant an upgrade. The murky meaning of 1♠ is not clear enough for me to bounce to 3♣.

[whereagles]

I think that in the sequence

 

1♣ (pass) pass (dbl)

rdbl

 

the redouble doesn't make any sense as penalties. Therefore, the redouble is better used as SOS with some weakish 12-14 NT hand of 4333 or 4432 pattern, asking pard to pick a suit.

 

That would mean that auctions like the above

 

1♣ (pass) pass (dbl)

1♠

 

show a 5-4 hand, probably with some extras, since with a min one just passes the double).

[Guest Jlall]

2C, and I agree with all the definitions frances gave. I don't run with 4333, partner is still able to run.

 

One of my partner's, Dave Grainger, has a good rule. If the auction goes 1C p p X p p against good opponents, ALWAYS run lol. That is extreme but I have not yet passed in real life when that auction has come up.

[Winstonm]

2C, and I agree with all the definitions frances gave. I don't run with 4333, partner is still able to run.

 

One of my partner's, Dave Grainger, has a good rule. If the auction goes 1C p p X p p against good opponents, ALWAYS run lol. That is extreme but I have not yet passed in real life when that auction has come up.

ROFLOL. My actual partner and I have the same agreement. If the auction goes:

 

1C-X-P-P

 

The opponents' are always right!

 

Winston