Ethical Considerations?

[awm]

[hv=d=n&v=b&s=shakjtxxxxdjxxcqx]133|100|Scoring: MP[/hv]

 

Partner opens 1NT (15-17). You bid 2♦ (transfer to hearts) which partner accepts. You now bid 3♠, a splinter setting hearts as trump. Opponents ask partner what this means, and partner says "I'm not sure, we haven't discussed it" (you have not played frequently with this partner, although you have other partners in common). Partner bids 3NT, and now it's your call. The scoring is MPs, the field is not particularly strong, and you've had a pretty good game thus far.

[Robert]

Hello awm

 

I am afraid that you are the victum of UI.

 

Without the question and answer, I think that you would trust partner and pass 3NT. Since you have UI, I expect that you just lost the chance to correct to 4Hs.

 

Partner's bid of 3NT(unless it is a agreed 'serious' or 'frivolous' slam try effort)

should show AQJ or AKJ of spades and poor slam cards. You would have no reason not to 'trust partner' and pass.

 

Pass and hope that you can run the hearts and score an extra 10 points for a top board at MPs. :blink:

 

Regards,

Robert

[han]

I don't think that 3NT is a logical alternative here, so I don't feel obliged by the UI to pass. I would just bid 4H.

[mikestar]

With 8 trumps and a void, no one is going to pass 3NT without UI--so you needn't pass it with UI. If you had self-splintered with six trumps and a stiff, then I think you would have to pass.

[Fluffy]

I would bid 4♠. But not sure what you mean when you said partner accepts the transfer.

[whereagles]

The 4♥ bid is 200% obvious.

 

You can argue along the lines of "I bid 3♠ because I wanted to know if there's spade wastage, so as to evaluate slam chances. Having heard there is wastage (3NT), a 4♥ sign-off is in order". This is rock-solid on any court.

[epeeist]

The 4♥ bid is 200% obvious.

 

You can argue along the lines of "I bid 3♠ because I wanted to know if there's spade wastage, so as to evaluate slam chances. Having heard there is wastage (3NT), a 4♥ sign-off is in order". This is rock-solid on any court.

The question seemed to be, what one should do.

 

Not what one can get away with ("You can argue...this is rock-solid...").

 

Not that I agree one could "get away with" that argument, but even if one could, it would not make it right.

[mr1303]

When you first heard partner bid 1NT, did you ever want to play this in 3NT? No, you always wanted to play it in some number of hearts, so bidding 4H here is certainly allowed, and without the slightest bid of doubt.

[Gerben42]

First relevant question: What would you think if partner would have alerted and explained as splinter and then bid 3NT? I would think: Gee, he has values in ♠, let's not play slam. So would you pass this? No way! I'd bid 4♥.

 

So what are now the logical alternatives? Not really passing. The alternatives are slam try and 4♥. That partner did not understand might mean he does NOT have values in ♠ but thinks you have them, which would suggest a slam try. So you cannot do that, you must bid 4♥.

 

So I bid 4♥.

[Blofeld]

I agree with Gerben's analysis. The UI suggests making another slam try, so we can't do that ... thus, a simple 4♥.

[ochinko]

Even at MP this is too good a hand for me. 6♥.

 

Alone in the dark...

[mikestar]

Even at MP this is too good a hand for me. 6♥.

 

Alone in the dark...

If you're off 2 aces or an AK, down you go and you get to keep it--if it makesw, the director or the committee rolls it back to 4♥ making 6. Tails you lose, heads you don't win--I can't understand this wager.

[luke warm]

i agree with han that 3nt is not really a logical alternative... i think i can convince anyone that i would never play any contract other than game or slam in hearts

 

i also think gerben is right, if partner didn't know 3s was a splinter and thought it was a general slam try (cue bid), his 3nt said he had no help in spades.. if that's true, it does give info to you... slam probably makes with no wastage in spades, but i don't think you can bid any more than 4h

[Robert]

Hello mr1313

 

Partner offered his opinion after you showed a slam try with long hearts and short spades. If you ignore the warning partner just made, why bother to consult him?

 

Give partner AKQJ xxx Kxx Kxx which is a perfectly good 1NT opening and he might well well issue a warning after you show long hearts, a slam try and spade shortness.

 

The slam bashers appear to be off two Aces opposite this hand. Is that a complete surprise after partner's warning bid of 3NT?

 

I was nice to give this example hand partner might hold 'soft values and the other pair might have an AK combination plus another Ace to cash 'off the top.'

 

Hello Gerben42

 

I play way too many complex methods to play bridge with someone who cannot understand this auction 'if' I am bid it with them. His 3NT would be a "Red" light warning signal in my methods.

 

Trust your partner is on my CC. I have several times in the past raised partner to slam holding a void in his suit because 'he' suggested a strong suit.

 

If you want to bid 4Hs, I would not disagree with your bidding style.

 

My style is to trust partner, after showing him long hearts, a slam try and short spades, the idea of making slam in hearts would never enter my mind. My partner would not bid 3NT holding two Aces even with massive spade values.

 

Hello ochinko

 

You partner bid 3NT holding two Aces? Mine would never go that far.

Even AKQJ and a minor Ace would either raise to 4Hs or make an advance cue bid depending on your agreements.

 

Hello mikestar

 

It seemed that I was a lonely voice crying out in the wilderness. :rolleyes:

 

My parners would have zero possibilty of holding two aces on this auction and still bid 3NT.

 

Your suggestion about a cashing AK combination is also quite likely. The defense might get the AK combination wrong, however, If they hold AK plus a side minor Ace they will often be forced to get that combination right for at least two tricks against any possbile 6H contract.

 

You also raised a good additional problem, even if the slam happened to make. A TD or committee might still take the result away from you.

 

Heads you lose and tails you tie is not a good way to gamble.

 

Regards,

Robert

[ochinko]

You partner bid 3NT holding two Aces?  Mine would never go that far.

Even AKQJ  and a minor Ace would either raise to 4Hs or make an advance cue bid depending on your agreements.

Hi Robert.

 

It is not my partner. The poster clearly says that it is not an established partnership. You are indeed right that it would be an insult to a regular partner to disregard his sign-off but this doesn't seem to be the case.

 

There are two rules I know that I would follow in partner's situation:

1. If you don't understand a bid, you treat it as natural.

2. You don't pass such a bid.

 

This could well be the case that partner just couldn't let the bidding die, so he bid 3NT. I don't know whether it would be ethical to bid 6H, and whether the TD would revert the score to 4H +2. Perhaps mikestar is right. I just think that 6H has pretty good chances.

 

Petko

[awm]

[hv=d=n&v=b&n=skjxxxhqxdkqxcaxx&s=shakjtxxxxdjxxcqx]133|200|Scoring: MP[/hv]

 

This is the full hand. Partner thought 3♠ might be a splinter, but wasn't certain. I decided that passing 3NT was a logical alternative at MPs (at IMPs I can't really imagine not bidding 4♥, but at matchpoints my hand could easily produce the same 8 tricks in either contract). So I passed.

 

A ♠ lead might've gotten us a pretty good board, but the opponents lead and continued clubs and partner could manage only ten tricks with the ♣K offside. Most of the field was in a heart game making either five or six depending on the defense.

[HeartA]

The 4♥ bid is 200% obvious.

 

You can argue along the lines of "I bid 3♠ because I wanted to know if there's spade wastage, so as to evaluate slam chances. Having heard there is wastage (3NT), a 4♥ sign-off is in order". This is rock-solid on any court.

I would bid 6♥

[P_Marlowe]

4H.

 

Partner "told" you he has wastage

in spade, so 6H is out, but I am pretty

certain, that I want to play hearts and

not NT, so I bid what I want to play.

 

Marlowe