Support doubles in Precision: up to which level ?

[Chamaco]

Hi all,

with my teammates we play real diamonds precision (1D = 4+, unbalanced), and we play support doubles in 4 sequences.

 

a. 1D-(p)-1M-(overcall)

E.g. only 4th seat overcall

 

b. 1D-(1X)-1M*-(2/3X)

E.g. opps bid and raise

 

c. 1D-(1X)-1M*-(1/2/3Y)

Opps change suit

 

d. 1D-(Dbl)-1M*-(1/2/3y)

E.g. 2nd seat makes a to dbl and his pard makes a free bid

 

Please note that in sequence b, c, and d, 1M* is not 5+, but 4+, F1R, unlimited.

 

============================

 

THE QUESTION

 

1. Do you agree on the use of support double on all sequences ?

 

2. If not, why ?

 

3. If yes, up to which level, in your experience, is it more useful ?

 

Thanks all!

 

Mauro

[luis]

As long as support doubles are optional I have no problem with them, if they are mandatory I strongly object. Meaning, with 3 cards in pd's suit opener must be able to pass when he has a defensive hand.

[tysen2k]

I only use them when RHO's bid is less than 2M.

[whereagles]

I only use them when RHO's bid is less than 2M.

A sensible rule. Any higher and you run the risk of propelling yourself into the 3-level on a 4-3 fit. Not good.

[Robert]

Hello everyone

 

Support doubles are a matter of bidding style. They often get very good results.

 

One of the best results of playing support doubles is when you do 'not' use them.

Playing support doubles, your raises 'show' 4 card support. Partner is better informed as to how high he can compete.

 

Using support doubles correctly is another matter. You have to define your correct hand requirements and also 'up to' what level you play supports doubles.

 

Meckwell(American world champions) play them up to and including 4Hs(I think?)

 

I like to play them as somewhat 'optional' bids. With(I use a 11-15 range Big Club system with a 2+ diamond opening) three card support, I like to play support doubles up to and including 3Hs(3HX=3 card spade support) With Axx x AKxxx Axxx showing 3 card support with 3HX has full values.

 

Without the King, I would pass at the three level. I would still bid holding AQxxx of diamonds in a 3 level decision.

 

With Axx x Axxxx Axxx over 2HX seems to be a good bid. Partner can invite with the right hand and will not expect more than 3 trumps.

 

If your style is to play them only at the two level, enjoy. Some pairs play the 'safety level as 3Ds.

 

With a minimum or near minimum hand or a hand that lost value(a Qx holding in the enemy suit) support doubles are not 'required' to be made while 'playing' my 'style' support doubles.

 

With a hand 'worth' a support double(every partnership should decide this matter for themselves) I make a support double.

 

Doubling with xxx QJx AQx QJxx to show 'three card spade 'support' is an 'big' overbid in my opinion at the three or four level. I also would not make a support double with that hand at the two level.

 

An unbalanced 1D opening holding xxx x KQxxx KQJx(add the Diamond Jack if you do not open this hand in Precision) and making a support double 'just' seems wrong to me.

 

If your partner 'shows' five spades by bidding 1D-(1H)-1S*(rather than doubling to show 4 spades), I would show 'support' at the two spade level.

 

If the enemy suit is clubs, it really seems quesionable. Do you want to encourage partner to out bid the other pairs' club contract?

 

Playing 3 spades doubled holding Qxxx opposite xxx with not highly recommended for nervous players. Even undoubled this might cause partner some small discomfort.

 

I started out playing mandatory support doubles up to two of our major. I switched to 'optional' support doubles and raised my limit to 'up to and including a 3H call. It fits my style of play. :)

 

You might want to test various ideas and lplaying 'levels' to see what 'fits' your partnership style best.

 

Regards,

Robert

[awm]

Recently I've been playing "takeout" doubles rather than support, and find this to be a big improvement.

 

The "takeout" double generally shows: (1) at most two cards in the enemy suit (2) usually three cards in partner's suit, occasionally doubleton when the hand is not suited for any other call (3) at least three cards (often four) in the unbid suit (4) at least four cards in the suit opened, and rarely more than five.

 

The advantages of this agreement include: (1) You can back into the fourth suit when it's right, for example after 1♦-Pass-1♥-2♣ when opener has 4-3-4-2 and responder 4-4-2-3 you do not end in 2♥. (2) If one person or other has a trump stack, it is easy to defend because the other person will usually have shortage and double for takeout. (3) You don't end up competing to the two-level often on hands where each side has only a seven-card fit and about half the values.

 

The takeout double structure also gives natural answers to a lot of questions most people don't discuss thoroughly about support doubles, such as: (1) If opener passes and responder balances with a double, what does it mean? (2) Under what circumstances should responder bid the fourth suit? Is this forcing? (3) If opener doubles and responder bids 2M, does this show five? What do opener's follow-ups mean (game tries for the major, natural bids, etc). Any of these questions can reasonably be answered with discussion, I'm just saying most people who agree to "play support doubles" haven't discussed them.

[mikestar]

Recently I've been playing "takeout" doubles rather than support, and find this to be a big improvement.

 

The "takeout" double generally shows: (1) at most two cards in the enemy suit (2) usually three cards in partner's suit, occasionally doubleton when the hand is not suited for any other call (3) at least three cards (often four) in the unbid suit (4) at least four cards in the suit opened, and rarely more than five ...

I agree.

 

I'm quite comfortable with 1x-1M-2M being three cards even in competition. Support doubles clarify the number of trumps for us, but also clarify the number of trumps for them, telling them whether or not to balance.

 

My preferenece is for a takeout double which will very often have three card support but doesn't categorically promise it. Opener should have the strength/shape to control the auction if he doesn't have three.

 

The double would be used with three card support when alternate contracts are in view, say you are short in the enemy suit and have some length in the fourth suit.

 

The raise on three cards is used when your are fairly willing to commit to the major on a possible 4-3, for example with some length in the enemy suit and shortness in the fourth suit.