Echognome Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 [hv=d=s&v=n&s=sathada643cak8653]133|100|Scoring: IMP1♣ - (P) - 1♠ - (3♦)?[/hv] You've got a bid hand. What do you do now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr1303 Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 Dare I say it: Hamman's rule as always applies. I'd quite like to double them for penalty, but I don't think a double here is penalty, and I'm not too confident about partner reopening on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chamaco Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 Dare I say it: Hamman's rule as always applies. I'd quite like to double them for penalty, but I don't think a double here is penalty, and I'm not too confident about partner reopening on this one. I love Hamman's rule, but it seems to me that the hand screams a suit contract (all Aces and Ks) , and that it's very likely to score in a a suit contract 2+ tricks than in NT... I might double (which is not penalty, here but shows "cards", often takeout oriented, I bid it here despite length in opps suit ) and play either 4S or 5C because I consider Axxx stopper much better in a suit contract.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 No way I want to double for penalties, even if I could - unless RHO is me, of course. In 4th seat he should be more likely to have 7 diamonds, which is likely to equate to six tricks immediately. 3NT felt obvious until I realised that I'd have to bid that on a flat 19 count as well...this hand could play quite beautifully if partner has a club fit and the expected diamond shortage. Doubling for takeout will surely make partner misevaluate his hand completely. Is 4♣ forcing here? Stop posting awkward problems that just cause me to woffle without giving an answer :angry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 4♣, hoping for the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 Dare I say it: Hamman's rule as always applies. I'd quite like to double them for penalty, but I don't think a double here is penalty, and I'm not too confident about partner reopening on this one. I love Hamman's rule, but it seems to me that the hand screams a suit contract (all Aces and Ks) , and that it's very likely to score in a a suit contract 2+ tricks than in NT... I might double (which is not penalty, here but shows "cards", often takeout oriented, I bid it here despite length in opps suit ) and play either 4S or 5C because I consider Axxx stopper much better in a suit contract.. Italians are well prepared for this hands, while many others sadly play double as showing 3♠ and extras like me. Still I don't find a better bid than double, might have to play in the 5-2, but there is no better way to describe these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker_gib Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 Dbl and let's see what happens. (I also like 3NT :angry: ) Partner is short in ♦ so I can still correct to 5♣ Alain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 X. I agree you would usually have a different hand type (18-19 bal with no stopper, or 3 spades and short diamonds and extras), but this is the best I can come up with. The good news is if partner goes crazy in hearts, he will have spades too. This is not the end of my problems though, and is only a temporary solution. I can imagine bidding problems later over many rebids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 Any bid here shows extra values - with weaker hands you pass and see if partner can act again. Therefore, with only 1 suit (hearts) to worry about why would double here be anything other that a generally big hand with no bid to make? Hearts, spades, and clubs can all be bid naturally - so wouldn't double show no more than 3 spades, 3 hearts, and therefore some sort of diamond cards and a holding unsuited to 3N? I really don't see the need to be jumping into the aution to show 2425 or 3424 or 3414 without a huge hand in which case I could use 4D for these hands or bid 3H naturally, which should inply some kind of spade tolerance one would think. With pass available to show hands upwards to 15, bids available to show hands in the 18+ range, the only hands unbiddable are the 16-18 with some sort of diamond holding - 3325 being the odd man out. So it would seem to me the best use of this double is "do something intelligent pard" - I have too much to pass and I'm stuck. Winston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_U_Card Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 What kind of a hand would 3NT show here then? Pard will rebid 4S with 6, won't he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trpltrbl Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 I guess double would be the value bid. Too bad I can't always double since with some of my pd's that would be support, with these pd's I will have to bid 3NT.It might very well be 6 or even 7♣ for us, I have many controls.Maybe the preempt just worked. I will double, going for the ♣ slam. Pd must have ♣ and if not he must have many many ♠ and we'll play ♠ slam.Slam it is B) GBB :ph34r: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalvan14 Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 There is just a lil problem with double (which is not an unreasonable bid, mind): your suit is clubs, and opening 1♣ is always ambiguous (could be 3 cards, and show a balanced hand, which you are not). This time the pre-empt in ♦ worked very well.My choice would be 4♣ (which is forcing witout any doubt: if partner passes, there might be stormy times ahead for our partnership :D )A possible alternative is 3NT, hoping to attract a 4♠ (what would you bid over 4♠? This is a sub-poll :lol: ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 My choice would be 4♣ (which is forcing witout any doubt: if partner passes, there might be stormy times ahead for our partnership :lol: ) I would take this as NF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 I would also play 4C as non-forcing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatrix45 Posted November 25, 2005 Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 :D Hamman's law applies. "If 3NT is a possible bid, it is correct". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatrix45 Posted November 25, 2005 Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 I love Hamman's rule, but it seems to me that the hand screams a suit contract (all Aces and Ks) :D But you got six clubs that might run, and a hold up in the diamond suit may well take it completely out of play. No guarantees, but 3NT looks great to me. Good bidding is mental play, not parroting somebody else's 'rules'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted November 25, 2005 Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 Flawed 3N looks fine to me. Double leads to heart and spade contracts which don't look appetizing. 4♣ is possible, but it gambles that pard has a club fit and spots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricK Posted November 25, 2005 Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 Dare I say it: Hamman's rule as always applies. I'd quite like to double them for penalty, but I don't think a double here is penalty, and I'm not too confident about partner reopening on this one. I love Hamman's rule, but it seems to me that the hand screams a suit contract (all Aces and Ks) , and that it's very likely to score in a a suit contract 2+ tricks than in NT... I might double (which is not penalty, here but shows "cards", often takeout oriented, I bid it here despite length in opps suit ) and play either 4S or 5C because I consider Axxx stopper much better in a suit contract.. While As & Ks normally call for a suit contract, it is also the case that a running suit plus 3 outside Aces is a laydown 3NT. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted November 25, 2005 Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 White versus white at IMPs, I'm gonna double their sorry ass... I'll be well position if partner pulls and i'm happy to defend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted November 25, 2005 Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 Richard, do you really play that this is a penalty double? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted November 25, 2005 Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 Hello kalvan14 If I was playing standard methods, 4C is not forcing. Hello everyone I play a Big Club system and the 1S reply was GF, so my 4C bid would still be GF. I do play some 'GF forcing to Q4m', however, this is 'not' one of those auctions. Partner shows 5+ spades so my double would not show 3 card support. Pass would suggest that partner reopen with a double 'if' suitable. Holding one less club and better diamond spots, pass asking for a double would be an easy bid. Holding the A10xx of diamonds, I might want to take a penalty even with AKxxxx of clubs. With AKxxx it would be a clear cut 'penalty' type pass. Meckwell likes to play for penalties in close decisions. I like that idea myself, I have seen some of those frisky 3D bids. Christmas might be coming early 'if' we chose to defend. This hand is neither fish nor fowl. My bidding might change from day to day on this hand. I suspect 'at the table' I would double(forward going) and pull to show a flexible hand type(two or more places to play) Holding an 'all club' hand I would bid a direct 4Cs 'forcing' in my Big Club methods. A pass here would suggest that partner should double. Change my diamonds to A10xx and Christmas would be in November this year. :D Regards, Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted November 25, 2005 Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 Richard, do you really play that this is a penalty double? Prefer to play it as 2-way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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