play in 3nt or suit?

[jillybean]

[hv=d=w&v=n&s=sajxhaqxdkxxcqxxx]133|100|Scoring: IMP

(P) P (P) 1nt

(P) 2♥ (P) 2♠

(P) 3NT (p) ? [/hv]

 

Hi,

Do you play in 3NT or 4♠ and why.

 

tyia

jb

[Flame]

I bid 4♠ my partner isnt necesarly balanced. MP is harder decision.

[cherdano]

I bid 4♠ my partner isnt necesarly balanced. MP is harder decision.

That's important. I prefer a style where 3NT promises a pretty balanced hand. If partner has a second suit, he would introduce it at the 3-level without implying slam interest.

 

I think it is close, but with so many controls I would bid 4♠.

 

Arend

[Mr. Dodgy]

3N - trust my partner, and agree with cherdano that if unbalanced/unsuitable for NT pard would bid a suit (short suit if playing w/MrsDodgy).

[P_Marlowe]

4S.

 

Partner did asked me to bid 4S if I hold 3 card support,

I have 3 card support, I show it.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[luke warm]

at mps i'd pass for sure... hell i think i'd pass here also... we can lose 2 tricks in both minors at 4s (unlikely maybe, but possible).. besides, i'm 3334

[Guest Jlall]

pass. I will pass with every, literally every, 4333 hand (with 3 spades) in this sequence. In my (limited) experience, I am huge longterm plus doing this.

 

To me 3N can be 5332 or 5422 without two weak doubletons. 5431 would be rare, a stiff K would probably be needed.

[Robert]

Hello everyone

 

Wasn't there an article in Bridge World that suggested that playing a 5-3 M fit in 3NT was normally the correct choice? If I can find that issue, I will post further details.

 

If partners' hand could be 5422, the decision is much closer.

 

If you have the agreement that partner wants you to 'bid' with 3 card support, this is a no brainer. I do not believe that the 3 card major support 'always' bids 4M is the best possible method.

 

My guess would be to pass here. If partner has a 5332 shape, we would likely be better off trying for nine rather than ten tricks.

 

Regards,

Robert

[mr1303]

Oh to be able to play Keri, which solves these problems for you straight off.

 

Anyway, I'm going to try 3NT, since 4333 opposite 5332 usually makes the same number of tricks, and if that number = 9, then I want to play 3NT.

[mikeh]

Pass... pass.... pass: to the point that I think that 4♠ is a clear error.

 

I have often heard the argument that responder has asked opener to bid 4♠ with 3+ support: most recently when North opened the travelling score slip in a club game and bemoaned the fact that he had just got a tied for bottom when he defended 3N and my partner had taken as many tricks in notrump as were available in ♠.

 

The sequence does not 'tell opener what to do': it describes responder's hand and opener is supposed to make a value judgement.

 

Here, we have maximum hcp (which argues for notrump) and stoppers in every suit (which argues for notrump) and no ruffing value (which argues for notrump).

 

And while I have some Aces and Kings, I have some quacks as well. A pure hand, with all the points in controls, is somewhat suit oriented, but this hand is in the middle, so I would view this factor as neutral.

 

And I have a good holding in our long suit, so I have will likely be able to enjoy 4 or 5 ♠ tricks opposite even a modest suit. If he holds KQxxx I am more than halfway to game already and if he holds Qxxxx, he will have entries and I will be able to set up 4 tricks most of the time even if i have to play A and J in that order, due to entry issues.

 

If his suit is horrible, then he will have all his stuff outside where it will combine with my holdings, and we will not usually worry about a 4-1 ♠ break which might torpedo 4♠.

 

So I have many factors telling me to pass and one factor (controls versus quacks) which is neutral. Like I said: this one is not even close.

[awm]

To some degree I think this is a partnership question. What would partner do with hands like:

 

KQxxx

xxx

x

KJxx

 

Kxxxx

xx

xx

AKxx

 

If your partner would bid 3♣ with these hands (or show clubs some other way) then a pass of 3NT seems totally clear. If your partner would normally rebid 3nt on these hands then you should probably be bidding 4♠, since in both these cases (and many others where partner has a singleton or two small doubletons) the major suit contract will be best.

 

Unfortunately many players (esp. beginner/intermediate players) are taught that 3♣ necessarily shows slam interest, or just don't know what 3♣ is and would never bid it. I've often seen people transfer and rebid notrump even with 5♠+5m hands. So with an unknown partner, I think 4♠ is a pretty clear choice here, although if I was certain partner rebids clubs on the hands above (and I know a lot of people who will) I'd pass 3NT.

[MickyB]

Veering off slightly here...if these hands transfer then bid 3♣, are you ever happy to go past 3NT with 2♠4♣? If not, are you able to show support below 3NT?

 

For me, 3♣ would be either 5-5 shape or slam interest, so on the original hand I'm on a guess. I'd bid 4♠, but I'm not at all confident that this is right - particularly after reading the other replies ;)

[Guest Jlall]

For me, 3♣ would be either 5-5 shape or slam interest, so on the original hand I'm on a guess.

I believe in the theory that getting to the right game is first, slam is secondary. I could not imagine having to transfer and bid 3N on the hands Adam gave. It could so easily lead to an inferior contract that could have been avoided.

[Robert]

Hello everyone

 

3NT. Is partner a 5332 shape opposite my 4333 shape? That screams for 3NT.

 

Didn't they have an article in Bridge World where 5332 shapes opposite 1NT should play in 3NT?

 

If partner is making some strange bid, it is not your fault. Play partner for normal values and shape. Play 3NT.

 

Regards,

Robert

[Chamaco]

That's important. I prefer a style where 3NT promises a pretty balanced hand. If partner has a second suit, he would introduce it at the 3-level without implying slam interest.

Yes, that is the key problem.

 

In order to know what to expect from a 3NT respnder rebid after the Xfer, it is important to know what a new suit at 3 level would be.

 

There are many ways to play that, and I am not in a position to claim I know which is better, although I have my own preferences:

I like that a 3NT rebid is not necessarily a balanced hand, for a simple reason, e.g. showng my second suit without a specific purpose (slam) many times helps more the defender on lead than pard (in most cases he'll bid NT anyways or 4M anyways, regardless of our second suit).

 

It seems to me that on balance, it is more frequent that hiding the second suit leaves defenders in the dark than the times that it helps declarer choosing 3NT when it's right....

[SoTired]

In the auction 1N 2H 2S 3C, if that shows a game-force 5-5 (or 54) hand, it is automatically a hand with slam interest. Yes, "game first", but Kxxxx xx x AKxxx opposite a strong NT with good support for one of the suits will likely take 12 tricks (with enough controls).

 

So responder is perfectly safe bidding 3C to show the unbalanced hand.

 

After the 3C bid, opener bids 3D/3H to accept clubs, 3S to accept spades or 3N to play.

 

So in the actual hand, opener should pass 3N and "mikeh"'s excellent explanation explains why.

[luis]

Passing 3NT with 4333 in this auction is automatic.

[Double !]

Perhaps passing 3NT with 4-trip-3 is "automatic" at imps, but I question how automatic it is at matchpoints.

There are many hands that one might play in 3NT where one might need to make a safety or avoidance play to secure 3NT at imps, but would be anti-field at matchpoints. 20 or 30 points is little to pay for safety at imps, but it can result in a big horse collar ( 0 ) at matchpoints. I just don't beieve that one can make a blanket statement about passing 3NT at matchpoints with 4-trip-3. It depends on where your high cards are located (such as tenace holdings) IMO.

 

DHL

[han]

Interesting Don, I would think that it is much clearer at MPs than at IMPs. In the likely case that 3NT and 4M lead to the same number of tricks then it may not make a big difference at IMPs (unless the number is 9) but a huge difference at MPs.

[Double !]

IF they add up to the same number of tricks, then you are true. Accepting the premise that they usually do, sometimes they don't add up to the same number of tricks: or, at least, there have been times when they haven't for me. That's why I said it depends on where your cards are located. Suppose you have an x opposite Qxxx in clubs in the sample hand. Do you wish to be in spades or in NT (OTBE)? I wasn't asserting that the hands won't yield the same tricks at suit or NT, and I accept the idea that getting to NT will win over time. I'm just suggesting that it's not the distribution alone that determines this. My experience in a past life was that I always seemed to get a bad score and apparently had made an anti-field bid (and in a good field) when I've put the hand in 3NT with 4333. Not a big deal. Just trying to learn a little something more by asking some questions.

 

DHL

[han]

I agree with you that some 4333's are far more suitable to play in 3NT than others. However, if partner is guaranteed to have a 5332 shape here (as many do play) then I think that it is the percentage auction to pass with almost any 4333 hand, and more so at matchpoints than at IMPs. But don't get me wrong, I'm not an authority on this subject (nor any other bridge subject for that matter).

[kerbi]

Pass - i think 3nt is better (4333 shape)