new suit over a weak 2

[tkass]

i wanna know what is the best treatment and why

 

i note that some play something called ronf that i unsderstand as only a raise is non-forcing.

 

the other day my pard bid 2sp over my 2he and he not intended that as a forcing call

 

i am not a expert, but at first glance if u play 2 nt as the only forcing call u might have to introduce ur suit one level higher and this can be costly.

 

 

 

so let me know how u the expert treat this and why

 

 

thx to all who share their knowledge

[joker_gib]

Over a weak two, it is common that every new suit is forcing.

 

2NT is also forcing but probably with a fit and asking for feature or min/max with good/bad suit (depending on your partnership agreement)

 

Alain

[Gerben42]

RONF is sort of standard. There is a good case for... transfers!

[helene_t]

It is common to play non-forcing shifts after Muiderberg and junk preempts. After a normal preempt, RONF is standard, as others have said.

[kenberg]

With regular partners I agree to play RONF, with pick-ups I assume RONF and this assumption is usually correct. Now as to why.

 

If you agree that you would open 2H on

 

x

KQxxxx

Jxx

xxx

 

and also on

 

Kxx

KQJxxx

xx

xxx

 

then you probably also agree that after 2H your partner might hold a hand worth a game try in spades, hearts, or perhaps in NT. Playing RONF makes the exploration easier.

 

 

Some prefer new suits as non-forcing. This view probably is mostly held by those who would open 2H on

xx

Qxxxx

xxx

Kxxx

 

Obviously there will be times when you have one agreement and wish you had the other. On balance, if a weak two bid has decent discipline and if partner can be trusted not to get clever with the tactical bids over your weak two, most of us find RONF the preferable agreement in the long run.

 

From your post I gather you agree with this but your partner doesn't. You are in the majority (by a wide margin) but there are other views.

 

BTW, you need to discuss what happens after, say, 2H-X-?. It's less clear that a new suit should still be forcing. I usually play it as not forcing but I can't say what standard practice is.

 

Ken

[mike777]

Agree, as Helene asked are you playing really junky preempts ala Karen McCallum style? If not then play new suits forcing.

 

If you want to get really fancy try this:

2h=2s=asks for shortness

2nt=club shortness

3c=D short

3d=spade short

3h=none short

2h=2nt=asks for A or K

2h=3c=spade suit

rest =natural.

 

2s=2nt=asks for shortness

3c=c short

3d=d short

3h=h short

3s=none

 

2s=3c asks for A or K

3d=d feature

3h=h feature

3s=none=3nt=club feature

[barmar]

As others have said, the common, "standard" treatment is RONF. Many who play non-forcing have the agreement that responder must bid 2NT to start a strong sequence. It can be treated initially as some kind of asking bid (feature, Ogust, etc.), but when responder then bids a new suit over the reply, it's natural with a strong hand.

 

The problem I see with this is that you're still exploring for a fit at the 3 level, maybe even the 4 level (e.g. 2♠-2NT-3♥-4min).

[Kalvan14]

There are plenty treatments available. I agree that RONF is standard, but I have a lot difficulties in accepting that 2♠ over 2♥ is forcing (while I do agree that 3♥ over 2♠ is forcing). But again, in a serious partnership everything goes: it is a matter of style. With a pick-up partner, RONF is better.

As an aside, I do not remember a lot of hands where you played in a different suit after 2M: normally you end up playing 3M, 4M or 3NT.

[purvisa]

It can be treated initially as some kind of asking bid (feature, Ogust, etc.), but when responder then bids a new suit over the reply, it's natural with a strong hand.

 

The problem I see with this is that you're still exploring for a fit at the 3 level, maybe even the 4 level (e.g. 2♠-2NT-3♥-4min).

While I agree with those who advocate discussion with partners rather than a single position (majority or otherwise), I would like to point out one thing about Ogust: It is not designed to be used without a fit in opener's suit. This means that there is no exploring for a fit at the 3 or 4 level unless responder is doing something mighty odd.

[pigpenz]

i pay RONF, so new suit is forcing :)

why pre empt a pre empt with a pre empt, when you bid a new suit as non forcing that is basically what you are doing

[whereagles]

There is a good case for... transfers!

Been playing that for 2 years. It solves all the problems at the expense of the club suit.. :)