2 hands, many decisions

[Rebound]

Indy tournament. Intermediate partner (according to profile.) No discussion regarding system.

 

1st hand -

 

You hold: x KJ9x Axx Q9xxx and partner opens 1♥.

 

A. Do you splinter?

 

B. If so, what do you do after 1♥ - 3♠ - 4♠ (uncontested), and what do you think 4♠ shows (assuming partner has not treated 3♠ as natural)?

 

C. If you elected not to call 3♠ what treatments do you like for describing this type of hand?

 

 

2nd hand -

 

You hold AQJxxx AKQ9 Qx x.

 

A. After 1♠ - 2♣* - 2♥ - 4♠ what will you do?

 

B. If you choose to bid 4NT, partner will bid 5♦**. Will you bid 6♠?

 

C. What do you think of 6♠ directly over 4?

 

*presume sayc, not 2/1 if it matters

**presume aces only, keycard not in play

 

TIA for your input.

[beatrix45]

:) On the first hand it sounds like partner has a slammish hand with the spade ace and w/o the club ace. I would try 5♦ since I do have the missing heart honors.

 

To me, splinters are 'picture' bids. So a splinter ought to be limited (say 9-11 working HCP) and advertise 4-4-4-1. On this hand, your five bagger is weak, so a splinter looks fine to me.

 

Had I not started with a splinter, then starting with 2♣ or using Jacoby 2NT both seem OK. In a pick up partnership bidding 2♣ is probably safer.

 

On the second hand, we likely have six unless there are two top diamonds to lose. So, bid 5♠ to ask for the diamond control.

 

PS In a BBO indy, I favor the KISS system (keep it simple stupid), so I would have bid 2♣

[Rebound]

You do not say whether you agree with the 3♠ call (if not accounting for the partner you have opposite you.) I. e. could you see yourself bidding 3♠ ? :)

[Chamaco]

 

1st hand -

 

You hold: x KJ9x Axx Q9xxx and partner opens 1♥.

 

A. Do you splinter?

 

No, but it's a matter of requirements.

I also play LIMITED splintersbut my own HCP requirements are a minimum opener in terms of REAL hcp (say 12-14 or so; a GOOD 11 would do, but never a 9/10 count).

This hand is short 1 trick, and pard may get overexcited.

 

 

B. If so, what do you do after 1♥ - 3♠ - 4♠ (uncontested), and what do you think 4♠ shows (assuming partner has not treated 3♠ as natural)?

 

Hmm, without agreements, I would be puzzled and I'd just cue.

 

If you ask me what I think 4S should mean , I'd say Kickback.

 

C. If you elected not to call 3♠ what treatments do you like for describing this type of hand?

 

The hand is cumbersome, using Jac 2NT and splinters: using J2NT does not pictue the hand well like a splinter in terms of distribution, but at the same time, splintering should show at least one extra honor, and pard may misjudge the slam potential, and we are already at the 4 level.

I'd use a forcing raise (2NT) and signoff in game even if pard is minimum.

 

All in all I'll use Jacoby 2NT.

 

 

2nd hand -

 

You hold AQJxxx AKQ9 Qx x.

 

A. After 1♠ - 2♣* - 2♥ - 4♠ what will you do?

 

If pard has AK of Clubs and a diamond honor, the slam is on a trump finesse, and, with the extra spade length, it's a worthwhile try.

 

However, since we are not going to find out anyways if p has the K of trumps, I won't use Blackwood, but I'll cue.

 

Ill bid 5H: that should show to pard my worry in the minors.

 

B. If you choose to bid 4NT, partner will bid 5♦**. Will you bid 6♠?

 

This question has no answer, except the fact that we should anticipate this problem: bidding 4NT is of little use unless pard could deliver the info on the trump K.

 

C. What do you think of 6♠ directly over 4?

 

It can work, after all, even other more scientific methods do end up in a guess.

[kgr]

Indy tournament. Intermediate partner (according to profile.) No discussion regarding system.

 

1st hand -

 

You hold: x KJ9x Axx Q9xxx and partner opens 1♥.

 

A. Do you splinter?

 

B. If so, what do you do after 1♥ - 3♠ - 4♠ (uncontested), and what do you think 4♠ shows (assuming partner has not treated 3♠ as natural)?

 

C. If you elected not to call 3♠ what treatments do you like for describing this type of hand?

 

In an Indy I would not bid 3♠. Maybe you partner thinks that you are very weak with 7 card ♠ and you are preempting?

I would bid 4♥ here.

 

 

2nd hand -

 

You hold AQJxxx AKQ9 Qx x.

 

A. After 1♠ - 2♣* - 2♥ - 4♠ what will you do?

 

B. If you choose to bid 4NT, partner will bid 5♦**. Will you bid 6♠?

 

C. What do you think of 6♠ directly over 4?

 

*presume sayc, not 2/1 if it matters

**presume aces only, keycard not in play

In SAYC the 2♣ bid does promise a rebid, but are you sure that you will never be passed in 2♥? I would bid 3♥ if playing in an Indy.

Then partner can bid 4♠ if minimal and 3♠ with extras.

In your bidding I assume that 4♠ did show extras. The major concern is ♦'s and they will probably start it. But I don't see how we can find out now. I hope and bid 6♠

[luke warm]

1st hand - You hold: x KJ9x Axx Q9xxx and partner opens 1♥.

 

A. Do you splinter?

 

no, i'd hate to put a pick up partner under that much pressure... i don't know what you agreed on prior to playing (for example, is 4H preemptive?), so i'd bid either 2C or 4H...

 

2nd hand - You hold AQJxxx AKQ9 Qx x.

 

A. After 1♠ - 2♣* - 2♥ - 4♠ what will you do?

 

5H, and if partner has 2 losing diamonds i expect 5S

 

C. What do you think of 6♠ directly over 4?

 

i like it better than 4NT

[Guest Jlall]

lol, come on guys. You really think partner knew 3S was a splinter and bypassed 4C and 4D and failed to bid 4N for this 4S "cue"? He thought it was natural, and is raising you. That is why you don't splinter with a random intermediate partner in an individual. There are enough ways to bid this hand without splintering anyways. I bid 5H over 4S and hope partner gets the picture.

 

hand 2 I bid blackwood. If pard has 2 aces, I ask for kings. This is practical and I'm not going to get into some cuebidding sequence at the 5 level with my pard who I can't even trust to be cuebidding correctly. Why torture the guy? Sure he can have the SK and CAKQ but he's an overwhelming favorite to have a diamond card.

[inquiry]

On 1, no I don't splinter. I will bid 2NT (jacoby 2NT Plus) showing four card limit raise or BETTER. I plan on bidding game anyway. Partner can ask if I have shortness, if he is curious. While this hand is too good for my splinter bid, it is not good enough for some other's.

 

On 2, playing SAYC, your hands are tied, admit it. Partner will have extras, you just have to hope this includes a diamond control. I like 4♠ here to be a picture jump, DENYING a diamond control. Playing that, you know exactly what to bid over 4♠ (pass), as they will lead the unbid suit. But in SAYC, put me in the 4NT bidders, as I might have grand slam if partner shows up with three cards cards and a side king.

[Guest Jlall]

On 1, no I don't splinter. I will bid 2NT (jacoby 2NT Plus) showing four card limit raise or BETTER. I plan on bidding game anyway. Partner can ask if I have shortness, if he is curious. While this hand is too good for my splinter bid, it is not good enough for some other's.

Wow, your pickup intermediate pard in an individual who you've had no system discusion with plays this? I guess it was a MisIry indy.

[inquiry]

On 1, no I don't splinter. I will bid 2NT (jacoby 2NT Plus) showing four card limit raise or BETTER. I plan on bidding game anyway. Partner can ask if I have shortness, if he is curious. While this hand is too good for my splinter bid, it is not good enough for some other's.

Wow, your pickup intermediate pard in an individual who you've had no system discusion with plays this? I guess it was a MisIry indy.

Sometimes in an indiviual you still sit across from a friend.. :-)

 

Opposite a random, no agreement partner, I bid 2C.

[Kalvan14]

Hand 1: I would not splinter on this hand. It is too weak (a splinter should be 12-15) and you are playing an Indy!!!. Even 2NT might lead to confusion. Probably I would bid 2 ♣. and decide my re-bid (which should be 4♥, unless pard reverses) afterwards.

 

Hand 2: since we are in an Indy, the horrible 4NT must be swallowed. After 5♦,

I would bid 5♠, to hint to problems in the minors.

[Fluffy]

Hand 1:

 

4♠: ♠xxx or ♠xxxx (maybe ♠Axxx). Of course that is with a regular partner, in an indy nobody is insane enough to use the proper conventional raise of splinter. So you are toasted, bid 5♥ and pray.

 

Hand 2:

 

Come on, you don't have ♦ control, how can 4NT help you?. It should't be that hard to find the 5♥ (or ♣ if you play that way) bid over 4♠.

[Kalvan14]

Hand 2:

 

Come on, you don't have ♦ control, how can 4NT help you?. It should't be that hard to find the 5♥ (or ♣ if you play that way) bid over 4♠.

I would completely agree with you, were it not an Indy (which is an acronym describing your partner: Idiotic, Nauseating, Disgusting Yahoo :) )

Make the most comprensible bid: 4NT (come on, everyone know Blackwood :D ). The real alternative (not to be despised) is PASS: your partner makes one trick less than the room (10 instead of 11), but is playng in 4♠, and you gain against all the 6♠ down 1

[whereagles]

1.

A. Splinter bids should only be used after previous discussion of splinter requirements. So no splinter for me.

B. Having splintered, at this moment I would be weary that my pick-up pard took it as natural!! Anyway, I'll bid 5♥ now.

C. Again depends on agreements. Without any, I'd bid 2♣ followed by a raise to 3 or 4, depending on what pard does.

 

2.

My feeling tells me that finding out about a possible diamond control is going to get us into trouble... so pass.

[Rebound]

Thanks for all your comments. For the record, I agree that the first hand is not quite good enough for a splinter. I wish I'd thought a bit more about my call at the time the hand was played. However, I'd like your thoughts on what happened next. Here's both our hands, I have a follow up question:

 

[hv=d=w&v=e&n=sakjha10743dj104ck9&s=s9hkj86da53cq8753]133|200|Scoring: MP

After partner bid 4♠, it went 5♥-6♥-AP. [/hv]

 

Opening lead was the club J, won by the A, and a low spade was returned. Will you play it any differently than my partner?

 

Hidden text follows:

 

 

 

Partner won the spade A, lead a heart to the K then his RHO showed out on the second lead of ♥ - down 1. Obviously, guessing right, or hearts breaking allows the slam to make thanks to the club lead. As the cards lie, the slam is cold on any lead since the spade Q is onside (assuming you pick up the heart Q. So, I guess I am curious to know if any of you would ever be in this slam. In the indy, no one else was there (all were making 5) and I can't say I am surprised. I understand completely the idea that just because it makes doesn't make it a good slam. I'm just not totally sure it's such a bad slam (please don't laugh lol).

 

 

 

On hand 2, I hated the idea of bidding 4NT, not knowing the diamond situation (given the circumstances) but I am gratified to see some sympathetic comments in its favor.

After the 5♦ call by partner, I bid only 5♠ as was suggested here and there in your replies. Partner passed, of course, and we ended up with 17% of the matchpoints. Although a few of the 6♠ bidders had much better auctions (IMO), there were several identical to ours, except that over 5♦ they bid 6♠. IMO they might as well have bid 6 directly over 4 if they were going to go over 5♦. Do you agree?

 

Partner's hand: ♠952 ♥void ♦K742 ♣AKQ984

Given that the system is sayc, what's your ideal auction with a random intermediate pickup?

 

TIA again :rolleyes:

[Rebound]

Incidentally, I trust you have noticed the connection between the two hands. On the first, we bid a (potentially) makeable slam that no one else was in and went down, and on the second we missed a slam everyone else was in that made.

 

I take the blame for the first one, but where do you sit on the second one?

[Guest Jlall]

IMO they might as well have bid 6 directly over 4 if they were going to go over 5♦. Do you agree?

I was a 4N then 6S bidder. A grand is still in play if partner ahd shown 2 so there's no need to just jump to 6. I do not understand why if you find out you're off only 1 ace you would stop in 5. If you do that, you should not have bid blackwood. I cannot think of any instance where I ever thought this was the right approach. If you are ready to take control, then you should only be stopping if you're off 2 aces.