One to solve for your system

[Gerben42]

How does your system find this contract?

 

[hv=d=w&w=skjxxhakjxxxdaxcx&e=saqxxhtxxxdxxcxxx]266|100|[/hv]

 

Opponents mercifully silent.

[mr1303]

Answer: it doesn't. I end up in 4H, or possibly 5 or 6H depending on how lucky I'm feeling.

 

But lets assume I fudge a bit:

 

1C 1S

1NT 2D

2H 2S

2NT 3C

3D 3H

3S 4C

4D 4H

4S 4NT

6S

 

Explanation:

 

1C (strong) 1S (balanced, 3 suited or diamonds)

1NT (relay) 2D (4+ hearts balanced)

2H (relay) 2S (both majors)

2NT (relay) 3C (4423 shape)

3D (relay) 3H (4 slam points, where A = 3 K = 2 Q = 1. This would usually show 5 slam points but I'll happily admit it's a fudge)

3S (relay) 4C (1/2 top honours in spades, 0/3 in hearts)

4D (relay) 4H (0/3 in clubs)

4S (relay) 4NT (0/3 in diamonds)

6S (realising that you need to pitch a diamond loser on the hearts, and this doesn't help if hearts are trumps).

 

What would actually happen:

 

1C(strong) 1D (negative)

1H (Kokish) 1S (relay)

2H (min with 6 hearts) 4H (go away)

[hrothgar]

we relay...

I can post the bids if anyone cares....

[Rebound]

If it happens at all, it's going to go -

1C*-1D*-

1H-2H-

2S-3S-

4NT**-5C-

5D-5S-

6S...

*strong club and negative response

**keycard for Spades, the only way i think i would get there without a double agreement 6 keys sequence or learning a relay system. 1H thru 3S all natural.

Unlikely perhaps, but ya never know.

[adhoc3]

Modified precision.

 

1♣- 1♦

1♥*- 2♥ * Canape

2♠*- 4♠ *nature second suit

4NT*-5♣** *KC1403

5♦- 5♠ *Q

6♠

[MarceldB]

Because the non-natural system section, you allow me for:

 

Pass - 1♦

1♥ - 1NT

2♣ - 2♦

2♥ - 3♦

3♠- 3NT

4♠ - 4NT

6♠ - pass

 

Pass= 13+ any shape

1♦= 0-5p. (no Ace OR King+any Queen) OR 6-11 part balanced

1♥= relay (no 4333/4432 13-22p.) no 13-15p.: 5+c m+4cM, or ♣ only

1NT= 6-9p. 4333/4432 or 5m332 (no 2/3 toph.)

2♣= positive relay

2♦= 6-7p., or 8 bad points. no Ace + any King

2♥= relay

3♦= 4/4 Majors, 2/3 or 3/2 in the minors

3♠ - Control asking Bid (♠♣♦♥ order) **

3NT= King or Ace ♠

4♠= SLam Asking Bid, ♠= trump *

4NT= Queen♠, no Queen in doubleton

 

*After 3NT I can ask with 4♣ for exact distribution or through 4♦ End Signal play a game or ask for further Control cq. do a Slam asking bid.

4♥ = normally: further control? but because of control ♠ Ace no further control can be there, thus a SLam Asking Bid and ♥=trump. Resulting that 4♠ = SLam asking Bid for♠.

 

1 Ace of 5 (♠) already mentioned, thus without Q♠ RR passes the 4♠ bid.

====

 

Suppose West has Ace ♠ and East has K♠ ,

I will have a problem because if no Q♠ I have to play -if decided to investigate furtheron- on the 5-level.

No system is perfect <_<

 

-----

** note: no control is impossible because 3 Queens will be downgraded to a 0-5 pointrange

=====

Finally, because starting with a Pass=13+ is easier than starting with a fert.

If East has to open, the bidding will be symmetrical with the same information.

 

For your info:

1♦ - 1♥

2♣ - 2♦

2♥ - 2♠

3♦ - etc.

 

1♦= 0-7 (if 7 then no Ace+ any King)

1♥= 13+ (no 13-22 4333/4432 etc.)

2♣= 6-7 bal. 4333/4432 or M or any 7222 with specification (if 4p.=Ace if 5p.=K+anyQ)

2♦ = positive relay

2♥= any 4333/4432

2♠= relay

3♦= again the 4/4 Majors and 2/3 or 3/2 in the minors

[inquiry]

How does your system find this contract?

 

[hv=d=w&w=skjxxhakjxxxdaxcx&e=saqxxhtxxxdxxcxxx]266|100|[/hv]

 

Opponents mercifully silent.

There seems to be two options, the cautious 3♥ "weak raise" forgetting about ♠'s and the over-optomistic 1♠ (kaplain inversion) before trying to settle into some number of ♥s. After the 3♥ bid, ♠ are lost but if responder sniffs at ♠ first, the bidding might be.

 

1♥ - 1♠

2♦ - 2♠

3♦ - 4♠

4NT - 5♣

5♦ - 6♠

Pass

 

where,

1S = 0 to 4 ♠'s

2D = four card S supprt

2S = signoff attempt

3D = forcing, game try, short clubs for sure

4S = I have enough to accept game try after i tried to signoff at two, no wasted C

4NT = RKCB for spades

5C = 1 or 4 keycards

5D = spade queen ask

6S = spade queen, no side king

[Free]

With my f2f partner:

1♣ - 1♦ (15+ any ; 0-5SlamPoints any distribution)

1♥ - 2♦ (relay ; 3-5SlamPoints & balanced)

2♥ - 2♠ (relay ; 4-5♥)

2NT - 3♣ (relay ; 4-4♠-♥)

3♥ - 3NT (relay ; 4SlamPoints)

4♣ - 4♦ (relay ; 0 tophonours ♥)

4♥ - 4NT (relay ; 1/2 tophonours ♠ and 0 tophonours ♣)

5♣ - 5♦ (relay ; 0 tophonours ♦)

6♠

 

Opener knows about AQxx-xxxx-xx-xxx, the known hand will play, but it's laydown anyway...

[david_c]

Ah, this hand makes a good (fictional) story.

 

At most tables the bidding went 1♥:2♥,4♥. North has ♥Qxx so this makes exactly.

 

One unfortunate pair got to 6♠ on these cards. West decided his hand was only worth a game try of 2♠ over 2♥, and East (who had been reading too much about how 4-4 fits can be better than 5-4) decided to raise naturally to 3♠. This got West really excited, and he bid 4NT (RKCB for spades) and followed up with 6♠ on finding partner with the ♠AQ. Down two.

 

<_<

[Gerben42]

Actually playing WJ2005 (approx.) one of my partners playing with his junior partner (sorry, no more junior here <_< ) bid simply:

 

1♣* - 1♥

2♦** - 2♥***

2♠ - 4♠

4NT - 5♦

5♥ - 6♠

Pass

 

* Polish ♣

** Odwrotka

*** 4-card ♥ and minimum

[han]

There seems to be two options, the cautious 3♥ "weak raise" forgetting about ♠'s and the over-optomistic 1♠ (kaplain inversion) before trying to settle into some number of ♥s.

What's this system you are using Ben? Doesn't look like inquiry2over1. Using KI with 4-card support is AWFUL!

 

The only reasonable start in your system seems 1H-2H, and it might go:

 

1H-2H

2S-4S

4NT-5C

5D-5NT

6S-all pass.

 

Seems like you can't stay out of 6S if opener tries with 2S.

[Flame]

so great for you all i would never show the spade and i think 95% of the bridge players wont either, but i guess non of those 95% read the forum :-)

I would bid

1H-3C* 6-9 4 card supprt.

4H- P

[awm]

Playing fairly standard methods, as I do with Elianna, the auction will start:

 

1♥-2♥...

 

Now opener has some decisions to make. Honestly I wouldn't fault a direct jump to 4♥ on the west hand, in which case slam will be missed. However, it's certainly possible to imagine a spade fit playing better than hearts (2♥ only promised three-card support after all):

 

2♠ (natural game try+) - 3♠ (choice of games)

4NT (1430 rkc ♠) - 5♣ (one)

5♦ (Q ask?) - 6♠ (queen but no side king)

 

Playing Sam Ieong and my current relay methods:

 

1♣ (strong) - 1♥ (5+ hcp, 2-6 321 points, balanced or 4+♠)

1♠ (relay, either GF, or a 5+ major) - 2♣ (balanced 5-8 hcp hand)

2♦ (relay, GF) - 2NT (some 4432 with doubleton ♦)

3♣ (relay) - 3♠ (4-4-2-3)

4♥ (sets ♠) - 4♠ (basically forced)

4NT (1430 rkc) - 5♣ (one)

5♦ (♠Q?) - 5♠ (♠Q no ♥K)

6♠

 

Playing Josh Sher and my current methods:

 

1♣ (strong) - 1♦ (less than GF)

2♣ (both majors) - 2♦ (which is longer?)

2♥ (longer hearts) - 3♠ (prefer the 4-4 fit, gamegoing...)

4NT (rkc) - 5♦ (one keycard)

5♥ (♠Q?) - 6♠ (yes)

[mike777]

1h=2h

2s=3s

4nt=5d

5h=6s

[Guest Jlall]

I am very skeptical that non relayers would find 6S here. I sure wouldn't.

[mike777]

Weiss clb:

 

1c=1d

1h=3h

3s=4s

5c=5d

6h=p

 

1c=strong

1d=0-2 controls (AK)

1h=~17-20, 4+h, may have longer minor

3h=invite in strong club context, 4Hearts

3s=asking

4s=AQ on this auction

6H=end, no use looking for Grand

 

common problem is to find a 4-4 fit after finding a 6-4 fit :lol:.

 

The problem with this auction would be partner not realizing that 3H bid will often not have more than 6 hcp so what are they going to do with club and d loser so best to just bid 4h. The key would be to have a good understanding of how limited 3h is and after partner shows up with 6 hcp that wll be limit in 5H and sign off, too hard to find 6spades I think.

[Guest Jlall]

To those who start 1H-2H-2S-3S-4N...why is 4N keycard for spades? Would you ever bid 2S with less than 4 spades (3613 slam try)? How would you then make hearts your agreed suit again?

[MarceldB]

I am very skeptical that non relayers would find 6S here. I sure wouldn't.

not even the non relayers (happy with Ace♣ + Q♠ ?), in the relayers camp it's a mess too.

 

I have posted some months ago a remark that bidding such hands, specially in relay systems , needs - although with the actual hand it should fit wonderfull for your system and you reach the 100% contract - a fair approach.

I mean: what if the honours are placed differently in the framework of the sequence sofar and the received information.

 

mr1303: (although under admitted fudging circumstances)

4♥ level = auto 5-level with ♦ Queen too.

4 ♦ relay and f.e. 4NT= ♣ + ♦ thus Q♠, KorQ ♣ , K or Q♦

 

----

Free:

if Q♦?

OR

after the 4♥ relay: 5♦=K orQ♣ and K orQ♦ and thus Q♠

 

------

 

Inquiry:

question: Ace♣ will that be welcome if you know partner is short in ♣ ?

 

------

 

I may suppose the starting point is a safe contract, best defence/lead

 

Best regards,

Marcel

 

P.S.

For the sake of good order:

the result of my given bidding sequence does not matter me, it's the principle that counts for me.

[luke warm]

How does your system find this contract?

 

Dealer: West Vul: ???? Scoring: Unknown

♠ KJxx ♥ AKJxxx ♦ Ax ♣ x ♠ AQxx ♥ Txxx ♦ xx ♣ xxx

 

Opponents mercifully silent.

i'm with justin on the several auctions i saw that bid rkc... why was it for spades, aren't hearts set? anyway, my weiss bidding is slightly different from mike's, which means his is probably right

 

1c : 1d

1h : 2h

2s : 3s (A,Q)

4d : 4h

5c : 5d

5h

 

responder has xx(x) in diamonds and clubs, making it even less likely we have a spade fit.. i don't see any way to get to spades, even if i judged the west hand to be less than a 1c opening (i wouldn't) and opened it 1s

[Robert]

Hello Jlall

 

I play two way game tries. 1H-2H-2S* asks partner to bid 2NT unless he has soft values concentrated in clubs or diamonds, when he bids 2S-3m. I can evaluate better what his soft values might be worth.

 

1H-2H-2S*-2NT*-3H* is a long suit game try in Spades(you skipped over both minors after showing a 'long suit' game try.

 

With 6331 pattern you make a direct short suit game try 1H-2H-3m and 1H-2H-2NT* is the substitute bid with short spades.

 

Unless you have some special agreement, after finding a 4-4 spade fit, many people play that 4NT is RKC for spades.

 

If you hold 3=6=3=1 and you play two way game tries. Spades are never considered as a possible trump suit. 1H-2H-3C* direct bid show a short suit game try. Whether partner bid 3H or 4H or 3NT*(serious or non serious) or some bid, 4NT is RKC for hearts. You never found a 4-4 spade fit because it did not exist with your 3631 example.

 

Regards,

Robert

[Robert]

Hello everyone

 

I am not a relay method bidder. Even if some disagree because many of my auctions are relay type methods.

 

1C*=16+

1D*=0-7

1H*=unbalanced hand with 5+ hearts or 5+ clubs

1NT*=4-7(an Ace if 4HCP) with 4Ss

4C*=shortness, agreeing spades

4NT*=since opener has not bid Ss yet, you bid 4NT to show 'good trumps', if partner had bid spades earlier, you would jump to 5Ss here to show 'good trumps.'

Opener is doing a lot of bidding opposite a 4-7HCP and trying for slam 'without' the AQ of trumps. A 5S jump of 4NT 'trump cue bid' substitute bid gives opener everything that he needs to bid a good slam.

 

6S If partner has two hearts, you ruff them out, if partner has 4 hearts, a normal break brings in the suit. If partner has 3 hearts, you need to bring in the suit or get a heart lead that is not ruffed.

 

Normal distribution gives partner two hearts and the contract is good one.

 

The bad break of Qxx off side beats the 6S contract, however, I do not feel bad about bidding an above average slam that bad distribution defeats.

 

Regards,

Robert

[Robert]

Hello everyone

 

I fat fingered my typing.

 

Down towards the lower part of my last post in the 4C* explanation it should read,

"A 5S jump or 4NT(I typed 'of' rather than 'or') Me bad. Sorry.

 

No natural bids were made 'except' for opener naming the final slam contract.

 

Ain't science wonderful.

 

Regards,

Robert

[mike777]

To those who start 1H-2H-2S-3S-4N...why is 4N keycard for spades? Would you ever bid 2S with less than 4 spades (3613 slam try)? How would you then make hearts your agreed suit again?

Great question, I asked around and here were some general responses:

 

"3S is accepting the try and shows 4+ spades, in case opener also has 4 spades....

 

4 spades should really be to play....should simply bid it to get there....I would say if you want to Kick back for hearts, you bid something else and then bid 4 spades,

including 3NT, as once you bid and raise both majors, there is no way you'd want to actually play 3NT....It seems to me that you virtually would never hold such a hand

anyway....let me try to construct one....

 

KJx AKQJT9 Kx Kx : maybe i guess....

 

... you have to rebid 4S (or 4NT) if you want spades to be trumps (when you hold a decent 4 spades)...and you bid anything else to stay with hearts....and since bids below 4H are forcing, you can always bid one of them followed by 4S to be Kickback......."

[ahri]

what's wrong with natural:

1♥ - 1♠

4♣ - 4♥

4NT - 5♦

5♥ - 5NT

6♠

 

1♠ is matter of style.

 

Btw, I play modified polish club, so i find 4-4 fit after all... :P

Had something similar today in local club, just minor-suit slam.

[Echognome]

1♥ - 3♥

4♥ - Pass

 

Carry on. Next board.