Too strong?

[mr1303]

[hv=d=n&v=b&s=skxxxhaqtxxdqxxxc]133|100|[/hv]

 

Partner opens 1S, passed to you.

 

Your choices are 2H (not GF), 2NT (GF raise), 4C (splinter) or 5C (exclusion RKCB).

 

Which does everyone else think is best? I really can't see what's wrong with 4C splinter, but I've been told this is too strong for that.

[Guest Jlall]

4C splinter for me.

[mike777]

<!-- ONEHAND begin --><table border='1'> <tr> <td> <table> <tr> <td> Dealer: </td> <td> North </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Vul: </td> <td> Both </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Scoring: </td> <td> Unknown </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td> <table> <tr> <th> <span class='spades'> ♠ </span> </th> <td> Kxxx </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='hearts'> ♥ </span> </th> <td> AQTxx </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='diamonds'> ♦ </span> </th> <td> Qxxx </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='clubs'> ♣ </span> </th> <td>  </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td>  </td> </tr> </table><!-- ONEHAND end -->

 

Partner opens 1S, passed to you.

 

Your choices are 2H (not GF), 2NT (GF raise), 4C (splinter) or 5C (exclusion RKCB).

 

Which does everyone else think is best? I really can't see what's wrong with 4C splinter, but I've been told this is too strong for that.

Ongoing debate, many prefer to only spinter with a limited 7 loser hand. If so then this hand is too good. Others prefer unlimited splinters. First choice for me is 2nt, close second would be 2h 100% game force if that is an option.

[Free]

2NT, don't like to splinter with voids and very strong hands...

[luke warm]

i'm not crazy about splintering with a void, but justin likes it so it can't be all bad... i agree with mike, 2H (if game force) is 1st choice, 2NT 2nd... the reason for 2H is, it allows a subsequent 3S/serious 3NT auction (if that appeals to you)

[pclayton]

2♥. Will splinter over 2♠ and have a nice unhurried auction if pard bids something else. Hearts may be the key to the hand.

 

If my hearts were weaker, a splinter looks more sound.

[Guest Jlall]

Will splinter over 2♠ and have a nice unhurried auction if pard bids something else. Hearts may be the key to the hand.

 

If my hearts were weaker, a splinter looks more sound.

That's nice if partner does bid 2S, though even then your splinter will not show 4 trumps. What if he bids 3C though? You can bid 3S and partner will never know about your 4th trump or your club shortness. A 3C bid does not seem all that unlikely given my hand.

 

It seems more likely that me holding A) 4 spades and B ) club shortness is more likely to be the key to the hand than the heart suit.

 

Over a 4C bid partner will be well placed with club wastage to try 4S, and to recognize the value of the red suit aces and kings (granted the HK is more important than the DK) and cuebid 4 of a red suit with some interest. Over 4D I will bid 4H then 5C over a 4S signoff and think we will be well placed.

 

As for 2N that has some appeal (I would love to hear a 3D bid), but if partner jumps to 4S with balanced minimums we may miss a slam or grand, eg AQxxx Kx Axx xxx. Basically if he has little club wastage.

[Robert]

hello Jlall

 

You use classic bidding 'around the clock.' Bidding two suits and supporting partner shows 3 card support(if unforced) and Bidding two suits and jumping to 4M shows 4 card support. The shortness and often the 3-4 card trump support is defined.

 

1S-2H-3C-3D-3NT-4S shows club shortness and 3-4 spades.

 

1S-2H-3C-3D-3H-4S shows club shortness and 4 spades.

 

I also like to use two tier splinters so my range would be about 11-13 and 14-16 so I can show serious splinters and courtesy types.

 

If you show the heart suit, partner can revalue the golden heart King(if he holds it?

 

)

It is a close call, I suspect that bidding three suits is slightly superior 'since' it stress heart values and also shows club shortness. The splinter bid shows the 4th trump, however, it does not stress the value of a possible heart King.

 

Regards,

Robert

[pclayton]

JL sed:

 

That's nice if partner does bid 2S, though even then your splinter will not show 4 trumps.

 

Why not? It only promises three, but could be more.

 

What if he bids 3C though? You can bid 3S and partner will never know about your 4th trump or your club shortness. A 3C bid does not seem all that unlikely given my hand.

 

Cool - pard has some extras (something I'm not finding out if I splinter)!

Over a 4C bid partner will be well placed with club wastage to try 4S, and to recognize the value of the red suit aces and kings (granted the HK is more important than the DK) and cuebid 4 of a red suit with some interest.

 

Well - OK. Note that there a lot of hands where pard's club wastage won't really matter, as long as he has the K♥ and a diamond control.

 

As for 2N that has some appeal (I would love to hear a 3D bid), but if partner jumps to 4S with balanced minimums we may miss a slam or grand, eg AQxxx Kx Axx xxx. Basically if he has little club wastage.

 

Ugh - 2N is possible too, but I hope we aren't playing THAT version that jumps to 4 of the major with a balanced mininimum.

[Guest Jlall]

JL sed:

 

That's nice if partner does bid 2S, though even then your splinter will not show 4 trumps.

 

Why not? It only promises three, but could be more.

Yes I think we agree here. Like I said, it does not SHOW 4 trumps, although may include it. There is a big difference to pard when hes counting tricks and pondering how the play will go (which is why direct splinters promise 4+ trumps).

 

What if he bids 3C though? You can bid 3S and partner will never know about your 4th trump or your club shortness. A 3C bid does not seem all that unlikely given my hand.

 

Cool - pard has some extras (something I'm not finding out if I splinter)!

 

As usual what matters on hands like these are not "extras" or not, they are degree of fit in trumps and how well the hands mesh (ie club wastage and degree of fit in hearts). Finding out he has "extras" won't help very much.

 

Over a 4C bid partner will be well placed with club wastage to try 4S, and to recognize the value of the red suit aces and kings (granted the HK is more important than the DK) and cuebid 4 of a red suit with some interest.

 

Well - OK. Note that there a lot of hands where pard's club wastage won't really matter, as long as he has the K♥ and a diamond control.

 

Noted, but with good trumps and the red suits controlled partner will probably make a move over 4C with any club holding on most hands.

 

As for 2N that has some appeal (I would love to hear a 3D bid), but if partner jumps to 4S with balanced minimums we may miss a slam or grand, eg AQxxx Kx Axx xxx. Basically if he has little club wastage.

 

Ugh - 2N is possible too, but I hope we aren't playing THAT version that jumps to 4 of the major with a balanced mininimum.

 

I agree, I assumed standard jacoby. If you have better methods that let both hands show shortness and balanced mins keep the auction low etc, 2N could be best.

[mikeh]

I will not splinter with a void unless unavoidable. I do not consider it unavoidable here.

 

2NT does not help, unless you have a sophisticated response structure, and perhaps not even then. Basic Jacoby is useless here (unless you are lucky)

 

So 2♥ suits me fine. I prefer it as gf, but can live with the constraint of the post.

 

I am well placed if he bids his two most common rebids: 2♠ or 2N: 3♠ is now forcing and he can and will upgrade the ♥K should he have it.

 

Justin was worried about 3♣, which shows extras in most methods, especially when 2♥ is not gf. Yet the alternative is to splinter into ♣? It seems to me that a splinter into his side suit is unlikely to turn him on unless he has a pure holding, in which case my slow approach will almost certainly work out just as well.

 

I think that 2♥ will position me better than any other 1st round call if he rebids 2N or 2♠, since I will have involved him in evaluating ♥ and made a slam try all at the 3-level, while other, less helpful rebids leave me either in as good a shape as a splinter or not much worse off.

 

I also like to involve partner and a splinter usually denies a good 5 card side suit: a potential source of tricks. A splinter on a void will cause him to overstate the ♣A: if I held, say Qxx♦, I'd be happier because opposite Kxx I have only one loser after a pitch. But my hand is such that one pitch is probably futile.

[flytoox]

I vote for 4C for its simplicity. 2H might work, but as Justin pointed out, if pd rebid 3C, then I am stuck. This hand worths only one bid in a sense, and 4C tells the whole story.

[mike777]

As for 2N that has some appeal (I would love to hear a 3D bid), but if partner jumps to 4S with balanced minimums we may miss a slam or grand, eg AQxxx Kx Axx xxx. Basically if he has little club wastage.

Hopefully we can play the hated Bergen 2nt. 4 of minor shows decent minimum and ace or k of bid suit. As many have noted this bid comes up once a year and hopefully we remember it.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

if after 2H a 3S bid by reponder is forcing, that fits fairly

well, altough this typically shows only 3 card support,

depends on your general structure.

 

Another option would be to bid 3H (soloway jump shifts),

intending to bid 4C (shortage and spade fit) over the

automatic 3S.

 

A third option would be, to play a structure, which allows

to differ between void / singleton splinters, e.g. the

structure suggest by Klinger.

 

After 1H

3S => void splinter, 3NT asks if opener is interested

responder bids the void, 4H shows spades

3NT, 4C, 4D => singleton (3NT shows the spade singleton)

 

After 1S

3NT => void splinter, 4C asks if opener is interested

responder bids the void, 4S shows clubs

4C, 4D, 4H => singleton

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[joker_gib]

2♥ for me : showing a 5+ suit with 2 big honours when I fit ♠ after.

 

Alain

[Winstonm]

A splinter in a sense is an "exclusion" bid - asking/telling about holdings outside the suit bid - more about HCP than length tricks.

 

There is considerable difference in trick-taking abilities between:

 

Kxxx

AQ10x

KQxx

x

 

and

 

Kxxx

AQ10xx

Kxxx

void

 

In the first, pard needs to hold 13 HCP outside clubs - AQxxx, Kxx, Axx, xxx for slam to be real good.

 

But in the second, only AQxxx, Kxx, Qx, xxx is needed. The key features that make this so are the 5th heart and the void.

 

Hence, both hands cannot be bid the same. I believe it is right to emphasize long, decent side suits first as it allows opener to evaluate secondary honors in that suit for trick taking potential. So I'm in the 2H camp. This may not work wonderfully if partner bids 3H, but if he bids 2S or 2N I can then splinter with 4C and partner is much better positioned to start counting tricks for slam.

 

IMO, it is the more balanced hand or the hand with only a so-so suit like Axxxx that should splinter - telling partner that if he has little wastage in the suit we are playing in a 30-point deck instead of the usual 40-point deck. If your minimum for a splinter is 12 HCP and partner has a 15-count outside the splinter suit, the most the hand can lack is a club loser and a King so a slam try should be made.

 

Winston

[Kalvan14]

2♥, without any doubt. Two reasons:

- I will never hide a suit like my hearts, which will be the likely key to a slam.

- splinter in a void is never a good idea.

Howver, the dominant reason is the first one. Splintes show more balanced (3-suited hands), which do not provide slow winners.

Overall, this hand is too strong for a splinter (which would be more attractive if you change a small heart into a small club.

[Fluffy]

If playing sayc I will bid 4♣ because if I bid 2♥ he is gonan rebid a minimum 2NT and leave me with no rebid.

 

Playing any other decent system I will bid 2♥ then when opener rebids 2♠ 90% of the time bid 4♣ splinter, wich sadly shows only 3♠, but I Wanan introducec my ♥ suit.