A Hand from the Lancaster Regional

[keylime]

You are dealt this hand in 2nd chair, red on white, against opps of unknown quality, playing in a strat MP pairs:

 

K7xx

void

AQJT9x

Qxx

 

RHO opens 4H to your right. You elect to double. The auction goes in this manner:

 

4♥ - X - P - 4♠

P - P - 5♥ - X

P

 

Back to you. Pard's doubled five hearts. What do you do, and why?

[Guest Jlall]

I pass. He's not interested in hearing a 5S bid, that's why he Xed.

[Kalvan14]

Same here. You made your bid, pard made his own bids too. Double is pretty conclusive.

[MickyB]

I pass. He's not interested in hearing a 5S bid, that's why he Xed.

Hmm, not sure about this. Pard felt it was right to pull 4H X to 4S, even though your hand could have been a lot more defensive than it actually is. How can he now know that it isn't right to go onto 5S? I guess maybe the difference in ODR between the typical hand and a purely offensive one isn't great enough...and do I tend to get bad results when I pull partner's high level doubles, but that could just be because I'm playing against other juniors who have already overbid :lol:

[Chamaco]

Pass.

Doubling was already somewhat an overbid.

[joker_gib]

I pass. He's not interested in hearing a 5S bid, that's why he Xed.

Same for me, the dbl of 5♥ is discouraging and my partner doesn't want me to bid 5♠

 

Alain

[Guest Jlall]

I pass. He's not interested in hearing a 5S bid, that's why he Xed.

Hmm, not sure about this. Pard felt it was right to pull 4H X to 4S, even though your hand could have been a lot more defensive than it actually is. How can he now know that it isn't right to go onto 5S? I guess maybe the difference in ODR between the typical hand and a purely offensive one isn't great enough...and do I tend to get bad results when I pull partner's high level doubles, but that could just be because I'm playing against other juniors who have already overbid ;)

I agree he would rarely bid 5S on his own (possible but rare), however I think a pass would be forcing as we already Xed 4H. With a hand suitable for 5S if partner wants to bid it, he would often pass I think.

[Chamaco]

I agree he would rarely bid 5S on his own (possible but rare), however I think a pass would be forcing as we already Xed 4H. With a hand suitable for 5S if partner wants to bid it, he would often pass I think.

Would pard's pass really be forcing here ? couldn't he have bid 4S out of desperation with some shape but not much ?

 

It seems to me that, if the pass was indeed forcing, then we should have much more defensive power to X for takeout at the 4 level ?

[Guest Jlall]

Would pard's pass really be forcing here ? couldn't he have bid 4S out of desperation with some shape but not much ?

 

It seems to me that, if the pass was indeed forcing, then we should have much more defensive power to X for takeout at the 4 level ?

When we X 4H we are saying we are willing to defend 4H X if pard has xxx xx xxxx xxxx. 4S will never be "out of desperation" in my opinion, although it could be bid with a distributional 0 count (but he would still be hoping to make).

 

Should we have more defense to X 4H? Unquestionably yes, but passing over 4H with this hand is not perfect either.

[Chamaco]

When we X 4H we are saying we are willing to defend 4H X if pard has xxx xx xxxx xxxx. 4S will never be "out of desperation" in my opinion, although it could be bid with a distributional 0 count (but he would still be hoping to make).

 

Should we have more defense to X 4H? Unquestionably yes, but passing over 4H with this hand is not perfect either.

Alright, that was my point:

if a bid by pard sets up a forcing pass, and with a bust he can pass, then this hand should pass in the first place because we must set the contract if pard is broke and penalty passes :-)

 

Of course, it would not be the first time opps make a doubled contract, but the disaster strikes if they redouble...

 

 

No bid is perfect but bidding at the level 4 with the values of a normal opener, despite a void in opps suit , seems too much to me.

 

if I remember correctly the standards described by Mike Lawrence, he brings examples in the 17/18+ hcp range as a minimum to double, even for takeout, at the 4 level.

[Guest Jlall]

Alright, that was my point:

if a bid by pard sets up a forcing pass, and with a bust he can pass, then this hand should pass in the first place :-)

 

No bid is perfect but bidding at the level 4 with the values of a normal opener, despite a void in opps suit , seems too much to me.

 

if I remember correctly the stabndards described by Mike Lawrence, he brings examples in the 17/18+ hcp range as a minimum to double, even for takeout, at the 4 level.

My argument is not that the bid by partner sets up the FP, it's the fact that you Xed 4H. Your point about passing 4H makes sense, this is a complex hand because you probably have a better spot than defending 4H and passing will probably make it all pass. That being said, it will be hard to find your best spot even if you bid.

[Chamaco]

My argument is not that the bid by partner sets up the FP, it's the fact that you Xed 4H.

Justin, I was not arguing about your approach, I agree with it.

I was rather using your points to argue that doubling so light at the 4 level is an overbid.

[keylime]

K Here's what happened:

 

I have some choices to make:

 

1) 5S. The easiest choice of all. Pard was under pressure to find a bid. It also indicates by the auction that RHO was trying to walk the dog and not push up into a possible slam.

 

2) 6D. Pretty much taking your life into your hands, but you are at least at slam. However, it definitely appears to be a handhog.

 

3) 5NT. Caters to pard having a five card minor, but does lie about your shape some.

 

4) Pass. Not too bad of call, but are you willing to defend with a void?

 

After very lengthy thought, I bid 5S...making SEVEN! The clubs roll home nicely along with 3-2 trump break.

 

Isn't bridge a great game?