Amusing director story?

[han]

I'd like to share an interesting story of what happened when my partner and I played in an open tournament. Important detail is that both my partner and I had profiles that said "Irish" and "beginner".

 

Early in the tournament, I was playing against an Eastern European pair who seemed to be playing Polish club. They opened 1C which was alerted as "11+", and when the auction became competitive they were not able to explain what the various bids showed. This was in part because their English was not very good.

 

So I decided to call the director. The director never showed up at the table, but asked me in private what the problem was. I explained the situation, and this was the answer:

 

"This tournament is only for advanced plus plus".

 

My profile-jokes backfired. I was a beginner, so the director was not willing to take my complaints seriously. I found this quite amusing, but later I realized that there must be an awful lot of abuse that beginners and intermediates must face on BBO.

 

The tournament quickly became worse. The director asked the players to shout (using tournament chat) the names of opponents who did not announce their system at the beginning of the round. Soon everybody was shouting unpleasant comments about their opponents. This was probably the worst atmosphere in which I've ever played bridge.

[uday]

It is hard to datect/protect newbies when experienced players tack on a newbie label.

 

I play in that club approx once every two weeks. The club rules mention that each pair must make a 1-line announcement of system at the start of each round. A laudable policy but surely difficult to implement in practice, and surely more difficult to enforce when the T is open to all.

 

 

That club tries to be a place to play serious bridge. Dunno if they will ever succeed, but I won't crime them for trying.

[Walddk]

Allow me to ask two questions:

 

1. Why would anyone want to write "beginner" in one's profile when (s)he is not, Hannie?

 

2. Similarly, why would anyone want to strut in borrowed plumes and write "expert" or "world class" when they know they are not?

 

Roland

[cherdano]

Uday, please consider:

 

The director didn't even come to the table when Han called about the problems with explanations. Just saw his profile and ignored the call (I don't know about the private chat, of course).

 

If the host thinks that only advanced players are allowed to participate, then he/she should use the relevant setting when creating the tourney. Allowing everyone in, but then deciding only to be a TD for those who declare themselves to be advanced, is **** (I can't think of an appropriate word here that is printable).

 

I like the policy of announcing system and carding at the beginning of every round, and usually do so myself regardless of the tournament policy. Giving score adjustments (with private explanations to the relevant pairs) is a harsh but absolutely acceptable way to try to enforce this. But encouraging public blaming of offenders (who may just have language problems in understanding this policy), filling the tournament chat with public gloating about score adjustments for pairs who didn't follow the policy, is just not an environment I want to play bridge in.

 

Arend

[cherdano]

Allow me to ask two questions:

 

1. Why would anyone want to write "beginner" in one's profile when (s)he is not, Hannie?

 

2. Similarly, why would anyone want to strut in borrowed plumes and write "expert" or "world class" when they know they are not?

 

Roland

The level in the profile is hardly relevant when you only play with friends. It hasn't occurred to me before that an adequate level is helpful for getting fair treatment by tournament directors, although I see there is some point to that (not in the sense of the above story, of course).

 

Arend

[han]

Allow me to ask two questions:

 

1. Why would anyone want to write "beginner" in one's profile when (s)he is not, Hannie?

 

2. Similarly, why would anyone want to strut in borrowed plumes and write "expert" or "world class" when they know they are not?

 

Roland

Good questions, Walddk.

 

(1) Usually I play only with friends, and they probably have some idea of how good I am (heck, some might know better than I do!). The changing of the profile started when an Irish friend decided to have an Irish-only tournament and encouraged his friends to change their flag. After that my profile has gone through many different colors and flavors but currently it is back to normal.

 

(2) This might be hard to understand for a starred player, yet many people (the majority I think) decide to do this. For a long time my profile said "expert", so that I was allowed to play at some "expert only" tables. Then I noticed Fred's definition (done well in a major national event). As I've never even participated in a major national event, the choice is easy.

 

 

Anyway, the director naturally assumed that I was an Irish beginner. The tournament was open to everybody, yet she felt she didn't need to answer a director call from a beginner. I never imagined that such a thing would happen.

[han]

It is hard to datect/protect newbies when experienced players tack on a newbie label.

 

How so? Please explain how this makes it harder to protect newbies. I suspect that most true newbies do not have the courage to speak up for themselves.

 

I play in that club approx once every two weeks. The club rules mention that each pair must make a 1-line announcement of system at the start of each round. A laudable policy but surely difficult to implement in practice, and surely more difficult to enforce when the T is open to all.

 

What is your point? We always try to announce our system every round, and this often encourages our opponents to do the same thing. However, when my opponents do something wrong then I don't shout their names over the tournament chat. I have two options: notify the director privately, or write an email to abuse. The same is true in real life, try announcing to the whole room how unethical your opponents are and see what happens to your nice club game.

 

That club tries to be a place to play serious bridge. Dunno if they will ever succeed, but I won't crime them for trying.

 

What are you talking about Uday? I didn't ask you to crime anybody, I am just sharing an experience that I found remarkable. Also, I don't know what the club has to do with it, this was an open tournament and I am not a member of their club.

 

I have no problem if they make the club a place for advanced players only. However, first admitting beginners and then being rude to them seems wrong.

[uday]

Let me summarize my viewpoint on threads like this.

 

- if you feel the need to be negative about a person , don't use his username.

- this also applies to clubs. Someone dumping on land might be working for sky, for all I know.

 

 

Conversely, if you type out an identity, you have to work very hard at making sure that the person reading the post does not view your post as an attack.

 

 

I fear that the managers and TDs of the club in question might view your original posting as an attack.

[han]

That makes sense to me, and I will be more careful in the future. The possible damage to the club may already have been done, but I will edit my original post.

[cherdano]

I will just make one more comment. I think it would be MUCH better if this particular club wouldn't host any open tourneys.

Then there would be no need to educate non-club members who are unfamiliar with the required procedures or required skill level in the above manner (which should be abuse@ material -- I just don't care enough to forward this).

 

Arend

[uday]

As a member of the club, I'm with you :lol: clubs that have unusual requirements will surely have trouble getting newcomers (to their club) to deviate from whatever they think the BBO norm happens to be.

[Chamaco]

Allow me to ask two questions:

 

1. Why would anyone want to write "beginner" in one's profile when (s)he is not, Hannie?

 

2. Similarly, why would anyone want to strut in borrowed plumes and write "expert" or "world class" when they know they are not?

 

Roland

It can be done as a joke, like Hannie did in this case.

BTW, this is rather frequent.

 

However, I am much more curious to know why a director should rule differently if an appeal is issued by a self-rated lower ranked players.

 

In this case, I think we can safely assume the TD was NOT joking...

[inquiry]

This tournament is only for advanced plus plus".

 

I missed which director/club said this, but no matter. This isn't amusing to me. IF anything, Beginners/intermediates need more attention from directors not less. And a director should (if he is gong to make any rulings at all...after all, some refuse to make any adjustments) rule on the bases of the case, it seems like the director didn't even entertain the case here.

[dogsbreath]

hi Hannie,Ben et al..

 

there are plenty of reasons for varying one's profile, including self-rating and flag.. apart from anything else I dont think there's a BBO rule requiring veracity in this matter. As has been said, playing with friends it is irrelevant.. but try to get into a team game with a rating below 'expert' and y will get few games. It is not uncommon to see team games advertised as 'world class or better only' !!

 

Also set your rating to 'intermediate' or less and watch the amount of abuse you get rise dramatically.

 

As for 'advanced plus plus' ... what's that? not one of the BBO-defined ratings, therefore meaningless. It seems harsh for a TD to accept players below some pre-defined self-rating then refuse to respond to reasonable requests from them.

 

Most BBO and tourney 'rules' get ignored .. i played a (free) tourney over the weekend ..8x2-board rounds. At the start of each round we announced '2/1 std carding ' ..only one pair of opps had the good grace to acknowledge and outline their own methods. None had a cc posted. No big deal ..

 

I noticed Hannie's Irish flag .. but dont understand the 'beginner' rating .. there's no such thing in Ireland .. the worst of us are natural-born card players and start at intermediate level , rising to advanced or better once we've mastered the mouse.

 

 

Rgds Dog

[kense]

Allow me to ask two questions:

 

1. Why would anyone want to write "beginner" in one's profile when (s)he is not, Hannie?

 

2. Similarly, why would anyone want to strut in borrowed plumes and write "expert" or "world class" when they know they are not?

 

Roland

Roland I have seen a number of BBO stars that have novice or beginner in their profile. I always wondered why BBO gives stars to novices? Are they also joking around then thats STUPID dont you think? If BBO awarded them a star they should act apropritely..

[kense]

I will just make one more comment. I think it would be MUCH better if this particular club wouldn't host any open tourneys.

Then there would be no need to educate non-club members who are unfamiliar with the required procedures or required skill level in the above manner (which should be abuse@ material -- I just don't care enough to forward this).

 

Arend

I agree with you..I signed up in same tournament and found a partner from South America from the partner desk..it became obvious imm he could not speak much english but could play well..I said sayc no answeer but we played first round Ok pretty standard..so I realised he played sayc.. he never said anything but the TD who I might add was PLAYING as well as screaming to announce every round ...in third round I opened a S and my p bid 3S ..I bid 4S thinking was limit bid but when dummy came down the opp called the TD who yelled across whole tourney..whats the problem and NAME of offenders..I continued to play buyt by end of hand I realised my p had been BOOTEd and replaced..I thought that VERY RUDE..ALL open tournies should have a director or two NOT playing but being there to monitor all the beginners and NON English speaking people..How can you call it a club when its an OPEN tourney open to EVERY one regardless of skill..and have 0 director available. Its so annoyng to listen ALL 14 boards to a player (TD) screaming all night and yelling at players then booting them...I will never ever again play in that tourney ..BUT I definetly think OPEN tournies should not be called clubs and should have a working director available at all times, the rest of players are there to play not listen to all the LOUD public yelling

[Winstonm]

I assume BBO charges a fee to the TD/club owners, so I can understand the pressure to have good tournaments; however, it seems at odds with the proposed initial concept to try to have a closed club and then open it up simply because tournament turnout was no good.

 

I know for me if I signed up in a club due to rules x, y, and z, I'd prefer to play a 6-pair tournament under these rules than a 50-pair tournament under different rules.

 

Perhaps the ideal solution would be to have a cutoff for entry fifteen minutes before the actual start so TD could review profiles and either nix or allow prior to the start of play - and it is too bad someone doesn't have some handy dandy language converting program to install where everyone could see the text in his or her own language of choice. Along with Full Disclosure, how about Complete Interpreter as well?

 

Winston

[uday]

we charge the pay groups, not the free groups. With rare exceptions we don't allow pay groups to run free events.

 

Check a T profile before signing up ; often you'll know whether the TD is planning to play.

[luke warm]

sometimes i'll put 'beginner' in my profile

 

unlike hannie, when i do it i'm not kidding.. it's an accurate sign of how i feel about my bridge at that time