Again bid:)

[omeroj]

[hv=d=n&v=b&s=saxxxhjxxxdxxcajx]133|100|Scoring: MP[/hv]

 

YOUR P OPEN 1♣ 1nt dbl(you) 2♦

pass pass ?

 

 

What do you bid now?Pls make your vote and explain it.

 

 

Tks

 

Omero

[Finch]

This hand is why I play partner's pass as forcing and double for take-out.

[Gerben42]

Partner's pass was forcing and for take out. With a clear bid he would've made one and with ♦ values he'd have doubled. So he must have a 4-card major or both we just don't know which one. 3♦.

 

I'm slightly worried about partner having 4423 also.

[mr1303]

If I can x for take-out, I do that. Otherwise 3D I think. A bit more horrible if double isn't for take-out

[omeroj]

Only 9 votes?

 

Pls make your vote, and explain it.

 

 

 

Tks Omero

[Kalvan14]

X would propose a penalty (otherwise, after all the efforts, you can double for penalty the refuge suit of oppos only by N).

3♦, I suppose: it is the least of evils, and I want my partner to play the hand.

My hand should be limited, assuming the (1N) was 15-17.

I would be very disappointed if pard bids 3N :ph34r:

 

At the table, I might convince myself to bid 2♥

[david_c]

Only 9 votes?

 

Pls make your vote, and explain it.

OK then, I'll own up - I'm the lone voter for 2♥. It seems to me that partner most likely has a minimum balanced hand, so bidding 3♦ is likely to get us too high. He could have doubled 2♦ for penalties (if our agreement is that doubles are take-out then there's no problem of course), so there's a decent chance that he has a takeout sort of hand. And so I'm going to guess a major suit to bid. Hearts seems better, if only because it leaves open the option of running to spades later. Of course, there's no guarantee that 2♥ will not violate Burn's Law, but I don't like any of the alternatives at all.

[pclayton]

Double is cleaaarrrly penalty after our penalty double (one of Klinger's rules).

 

You can make up your homemade rules about this, but thats standard bridge.

 

3♦ has some appeal to me, although it occurred to me when I saw thread. If I would not have thought of it, I would just pass. 2♥ and 2♠ might work out, but can be a disaster if you don't catch a fit (and why should we?).

[Guest Jlall]

Double is cleaaarrrly penalty after our penalty double (one of Klinger's rules).

 

You can make up your homemade rules about this, but thats standard bridge.

 

3♦ has some appeal to me, although it occurred to me when I saw thread. If I would not have thought of it, I would just pass. 2♥ and 2♠ might work out, but can be a disaster if you don't catch a fit (and why should we?).

I would have thought it was standard for X of 1N to create a force thus you can't pass 2D, but I could be wrong.

[temp3600]

If X is punitive, doesn't it make sense to play 2NT as takeout ? 3♦ would clearly be for the majors, so 2NT implies ♣ tolerance.

I think - if X is punitive - 2NT should show this hand exactly ! :)

[Robert]

hello everyone

 

I converted to the true faith several years ago. Double should be takeout from both sides of the table. If either parner has a penalty type hand, you pass and partner doubles for you.

 

Defending at the two level with the other pair in an eight(or nine) card fit is not good bridge. It is also against the LAW.

 

Playing double as takeout keeps you from defending most 8(9) card fits at the two level. It also often gets you to playable contracts when you should be bidding.

 

Regards,

Robert

[Rebound]

I voted double - for penalty. This is matchpoints. I'm going to take a shot at plus 200. At imps, I agree a bid is called for.

[Kalvan14]

Yeah, a bid is called for. Everything considered, 2♥ looks better and better

[han]

I understand that it is a good idea to play negative doubles here, even though we have already made a penalty double. For my answer I assumed that we are not playing this, so double=penalty and clearly out of the question.

 

I'm not quite willing to force to game here, so I choose 2H. I must admit I didn't consider 3D for this reason, although I do see the merits of it.

[P_Marlowe]

Dbl

 

P Pass is forcing, so Pass is

out, I am balanced, partner most

likely as well.

Since Pass is forcing, Dbl is not a

penalty double, it just says, I have

nothing else, which comes to mind.

 

Marlowe

[P_Marlowe]

Double is cleaaarrrly penalty after our penalty double (one of Klinger's rules).

I have my doubt, that this is one of Klingers rules,

since Pass is forcing, a double, altouh penalty

orienated, is not a pure penalty double, i.e.

double does not promise a trump stack.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[luke warm]

but it is a klinger rule, marlowe... any subsequent double after a penalty double is itself a penalty double... now that doesn't mean you can't formulate your own rules, just having rules puts you ahead of the game...

[Fluffy]

I ain't gonna double their 8-9 card fit at the 2 level.

 

The problem is how to findour best contract now, I've been there before (sometimes with partner doubling 1TN with jsut 9 HCP, then being forced to bid and getting doubled ourselves). 1 Solution is not to double with these 10 scattered points :lol:.

 

I voted for 2♥ althou the more I think of it, the more I like Gerben's 3♦.

[mr1303]

Just a thought:

 

You hold:

 

QJxx

QJxx

void

Kxxxx

 

 

LHO opens 1NT (12-14), and bidding procedes:

 

1NT X P P

XX P 2D ?

 

 

Pass by RHO forced redouble, 2D now shows diamonds and a major (likely 4-4, but possibly more shapely)

 

What do you do here? You can double for take-out, but partner will sit for it. Or, if you play that double would be penalty, do you pass (forcing) and when partner doubles, now what do you do?

[Al_U_Card]

Pard has his chance to double 2D (xfr or natural) so he has at most 3 D cards. After my 3D bid, without a D stopper he will bid 3M and I will pass it. Knowing their hands from the bidding we should go plus.

[beatrix45]

:rolleyes: You asked for a reply, so....................

My partners don't usually open clubs when they hold diamonds, so it looks to me like they have escaped successfully, and I now have no good bid. All normal bids are misleading (major suits are weak and no diamond stop). I would rather risk the slight (well, I do have TWO aces) overbid of 3♦. At least we will end up in the right strain.

 

To me, this auction is not an analogy to the negative double. I invited partner to take a bite out of 2♦, and she did not do so. Hence, I can't double except for penalties, lest our "system" make it nearly always impossible to penalize the opponents.

[omeroj]

Tks you all for the votes...and your opinions.

 

 

Omero

[leboulepat]

Dealer: North Vul: Both Scoring: MP

♠ Axxx ♥ Jxxx ♦ xx ♣ AJx

                                 

YOUR P OPEN 1♣ 1nt    dbl(you)  2♦

                    pass pass    ?

 

 

What do you bid now?Pls make your vote and explain it.

 

 

Tks

 

Omero

3♣ = stayman ==> 3♦=no stop

3♥♠=stop+color

 

 

Name in Rubensohl

[Robert]

Hello everyone

 

I like the double from either side as takeout method. You tend to get a penalty 'if' either partner holds their suit. You also do not defend with 2-2 or 2-3 fits.

 

This method also often gets you to decent suit contracts. A 4-3 fit often plays very well with 3 card support and taking ruffs in the short trump hand.

 

Against weaker pairs, the takeout double style sometimes scares them into running from a good contract into a bad contract or they 'push' themselves into a higher level. You might not have beaten a two level contract and they push themselves into a three level contract that you can beat.

 

Regards,

Robert