light responses

[luke warm]

One more comment: I think that Kokish has thought about this a great deal. I doubt that he will change his mind after you give him such a simplistic answer.

i assume you're addressing this to me... how simplistic is 'table feel'? not that this is that, merely that it's a subjective thing... you and ben, and others it seems, feel that bidding here is fine... i personally don't have a problem with that, it's your style and agreement...

 

but neither do i think *not* bidding with that hand is wrong... style and agreement are things others are allowed to have, also... btw, i disagree that partner can't, or shouldn't, count on responder for a modicum of defense... i don't think most play it that way... but if your agreement is that a response shows 0-whatever with 0-whatever defensive tricks, that's between you and your partner...

[Echognome]

I understand Jimmy's sentiment. The main thing is that partner understands what your bid means. If you can respond with 0 hcp and some shape, then partner is going to have a tough time judging some auctions, e.g. when you end up competing to a high level. If it goes 1♣ - (P) - 1♥ - (3♦); 4♦ - (5♦) - P - (P) - ? Partner may still not know if 5♦ is a sacrifice. You pays your money though. You may also be able to find a thin game because you responded and others left him at the 1-level.

 

It is similar to opening preempts.

 

In one of my partnerships, favourable we might open 2♠ on

 

xxxxx

x

xx

xxxxx

 

As showing spades and a minor. Sometimes we end up too high or give partner a tough decision, but partner is forewarned that his 16 count just won't cut it. Partner has a difficult decision? Well that's tough. If we had to have a sound preempt so say something like:

 

KJTxx

x

xx

QJxxx

 

Partner may still have a difficult decision with his 3433 12 count.

[inquiry]

My preferred system limits most opening hands to around 19 hcp, unless they are balanced. This, in general, allows my partners to pass with more hcp than normal. However, this doesn't mean they have too. In fact, with this hand, I too would have responded 1♥.

 

Philosophically, you try to win each hand I guess. IF you think bidding occassionally with 0hcp is the best idea (opening or responding), then do it. I happen to agree that 1♥ on htis hand gives you your best chance for a decent score. It makes it harder for your opponents to compete intellegently, it gives you the best chance to find your best fit, and should you have game (remote true), surely it will be in a major (maybe you belong in spades).

 

Now, if you play 1m-2H as preemptive, this means you can't possibly be this weak... and I understand that. If I played 1m-2H as preemptive I would probably pass with this hand. Not that it proves anything, but after the 1♥ response we got 80% Matchpoint result on this hand, losing out to 3NT making. Also, for what it is worth, while we can make 3♥ and they can make 4♦, they also can make 3NT played from the "right" side (the side with the heart stopper). No chance to get to 3NT if this hand responds 1♥

 

Ben

[cherdano]

One more comment: I think that Kokish has thought about this a great deal. I doubt that he will change his mind after you give him such a simplistic answer.

i assume you're addressing this to me... how simplistic is 'table feel'? not that this is that, merely that it's a subjective thing... you and ben, and others it seems, feel that bidding here is fine... i personally don't have a problem with that, it's your style and agreement...

J

Jimmy, this remark was certainly not directed at you.

 

Arend

[han]

One more comment: I think that Kokish has thought about this a great deal. I doubt that he will change his mind after you give him such a simplistic answer.

i assume you're addressing this to me... how simplistic is 'table feel'? not that this is that, merely that it's a subjective thing... you and ben, and others it seems, feel that bidding here is fine... i personally don't have a problem with that, it's your style and agreement...

 

but neither do i think *not* bidding with that hand is wrong... style and agreement are things others are allowed to have, also... btw, i disagree that partner can't, or shouldn't, count on responder for a modicum of defense... i don't think most play it that way... but if your agreement is that a response shows 0-whatever with 0-whatever defensive tricks, that's between you and your partner...

It was not directed to you Jimmy.

[Al_U_Card]

Hmmmmn, they say "with 6-4, bid one more" altho I doubt they were referring to responding at the one level...... :)

 

This 9 loser block of emmenthal (all holes and no cheese perhaps is better?) has too many ways to win, not to bid 1H much as I will hate explaining why I pulled my pard's double of 5D to 5H....

[Rebound]

I think this hand underscores very well the importance of partnership agreement. Your system accounts for this hand so certainly it makes sense to bid with it. It's no different, I would say, than determining whether to open it with a preempt if you were dealer - answer is, it depends on your partnership agreement.

 

I like the idea of responding 1♥ with that hand, but I almost certainly would not do it with either of my current partners, and if I did, I would have to fight very hard to not pull the double of 5♦ since I may be expected to contribute a little something to the defense. I have one semi-regular partner in particular who likes to make thin doubles - I try to ensure I have at least something like what I have promised. 1♥ doesn't promise much, but this hand ain't got it for me.

[mr1303]

The latest spot of advice going round it that you should never pull partner's penalty doubles because you've misbid the hand earlier.

 

E.g.

 

You hold:

 

xxxxxx

x

x

xxxxx

 

And the bidding goes 1H (X) 4H to you. If you bid 4S here (in all honesty, who wouldn't) you must not pull partner's penalty double of 5H because you felt that you said you had something on the previous round.