han Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 [hv=d=n&v=n&s=s1087xh976xxxdxcxx]133|100|Scoring: MP1♣-(p)-1♥-(3♦)3♥-(4♦)-p-(5♦)Dbl-all pass.[/hv] How do you like the bidding? Do you have a good or bad feeling about this? (remember, it is MP's) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 [hv=d=n&v=n&s=s1087xh976xxxdxcxx]133|100|Scoring: MP1♣-(p)-1♥-(3♦)3♥-(4♦)-p-(5♦)Dbl-all pass.[/hv] How do you like the bidding? Do you have a good or bad feeling about this? (remember, it is MP's) Love it, well done partner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted October 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 I edited the vulnerability, you are now vulnerable against not. Do you still love it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Hate it. May beat it, but I doubt that my bidding helped, and it may well hurt. I can understand 1♥ at favourable, but not here (heck, I might do it myself, but I 'know' I'm rolling the dice and I think that it is anti-partnership to be that random) Just learned of vulnerability switch: now REALLY hate it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 vul I still bid 1h but I can understand pass.Keep in mind partner will not have 14-16 or 18-19 balanced here. And will not have many semi-balanced hands in that range also. Of course if playing with p/u partner I pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tysen2k Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 I like the bidding. If it were favorable I might even bid 4♥ on my second turn. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 this has to be a trick question, maybe han saw this hand on vugraph and maybe meckwell did it and it worked out... personally i'd never bid 1h here, and i think doing so led to partner's double of 5d... whether or not 5d goes down, it's going to be hard explaining my total lack of a hand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 this has to be a trick question, maybe han saw this hand on vugraph and maybe meckwell did it and it worked out... personally i'd never bid 1h here, and i think doing so led to partner's double of 5d... whether or not 5d goes down, it's going to be hard explaining my total lack of a hand Jimmy I think you forget Kokish is the coach of Meckwell. This is what he teaches. If you pass with this hand then you must explain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 then i'll explain that my hand looked like a pass to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Hmm. When I bid 1♥ and partner raises me to 4♥, I feel good. So the ritong philosophy tells me to bid.If it goes 1NT by partner, 2♥ by me, I also feel good -- I might make, and opponents have 3NT on.Now the given scenario is still ok. Partner may have misguessed, or opponents may have misguessed (3♦ can mean many things there.) So in summary, this is ok, and too many good things can happen when I bid. Arend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted October 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 this has to be a trick question, maybe han saw this hand on vugraph and maybe meckwell did it and it worked out... personally i'd never bid 1h here, and i think doing so led to partner's double of 5d... whether or not 5d goes down, it's going to be hard explaining my total lack of a hand No, no trick question. I had this hand when playing with Ben and I bid 1H. We frequently respond light, and we can stop in 2H when partner has a 17-19 balanced hand or in 3H when partner has 17-19 support points and 4+ support. So our system is somewhat geared towards light responses with 5-card majors. I did not like the final contract, although partner could easily have 3 top tricks (he actually did, but one of his clubs got ruffed). When my spade 10 took the last and setting trick all was well. The opponents didn't play it very well, they should have made it. We can make 3H but not more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben42 Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Good thing they didn't make an overtrick. What were you thinking when you responded 1♥? Sorry that I am so blunt but the answer must have been "nothing, wasn't thinking". If Kokish asks me why I passed my response is that 1♣ was not forcing. Finito. First: You said they could make 5♦, well would they reach it had you passed? That slows down the auction and they might never get there. Second: 1♣ is not forcing. You overbid by an ace causing partner to make doubles where he shouldn't. Third: Vulnerability. Might well be that your bidding on nothing may at some point cause opponent to think it is his birthday. He'll be right. Fourth: If you want to play a system where 1-bids are forcing this is possible. Ask Nunes and Fantoni. But at least be in the clear about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted October 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Good thing they didn't make an overtrick. What were you thinking when you responded 1♥? Sorry that I am so blunt but the answer must have been "nothing, wasn't thinking". If Kokish asks me why I passed my response is that 1♣ was not forcing. Finito. First: You said they could make 5♦, well would they reach it had you passed? That slows down the auction and they might never get there. Second: 1♣ is not forcing. You overbid by an ace causing partner to make doubles where he shouldn't. Third: Vulnerability. Might well be that your bidding on nothing may at some point cause opponent to think it is his birthday. He'll be right. Fourth: If you want to play a system where 1-bids are forcing this is possible. Ask Nunes and Fantoni. But at least be in the clear about it.Sorry if this is going to be blunt too Gerben. I don't mind your critique, I am aware that many good players would not respond even with a king more. However your arguments are just plain rubbish in my opinion. (1) You think they have more difficulty bidding over 1C-pass-pass then over 1C-pass-1H? I don't think so, I think that they were lucky to somehow land in 5D. Whether they would get there or not after a pass we will never know, but there is no reason to think that their bidding will be more accurate over 1C-1H. (2) I did not overbid by an ace because we do not require an ace. My partner had three quick tricks if I remember correctly, including A-K of clubs. There was no reason to think that the king would get ruffed, my partner did not double assuming that I would deliver a trick. (3) I agree that the vulnerability was bad for this bid. I disagree that they would be right if they thought it was their birthday (well, unless it actually was...), we could make 3H. I think that this hand has adequate playing strength for hearts, and it is unlikely (possible but unlikely) that we end up playing in any other strain. (4) Ben and I have clear agreements that we respond light when we have a 5-card major, and our (his) system tries to allow for this. I don not know what Ben thought about my 1H response, we didn't talk about it. I imagine that he appreciates my adventures, even if they work out badly. We don't play that 1C is forcing, I would pass holding something like Jxx Qxxx Jxx xxx. I don't recall bidding 1H on a zero count before, but I was certainly thinking when I bid it. My choice was influenced by a recent discussion here (and the statement that Kokish recommends one always responds to 1m with a 5-card major). What place better to experiment with this than an online matchpoint game? Next time I'll try to be non-vul. If you ever play against me, feel free to double me when I respond light. (I won't tell you when that is though :D ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted October 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 One more comment: I think that Kokish has thought about this a great deal. I doubt that he will change his mind after you give him such a simplistic answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ochinko Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 I am temped to bid 1H too, but there's no way that 1C is going to be passed by LHO, so you could appear later in the bidding. Unless it goes 1C - (P) - P - (1D)P - (5D) or 1C - (P) - P - (Dbl)P - (5D) which is not very likely. Petko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 This is the only area I know of where I consistently disagree with Mikeh. Good to know there is one, or he wouldn't be a very good player :D Anyways, I would always bid 1H with this. As for Gerben saying the opps will not find 5D if we don't bid after they did when we DID bid...ROFL. As for partner Xing, I don't think he has the right to expect a trick from us even if we don't respond light. If he Xs I'll be confident partner thinks he has at least 3 tricks in his hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 I didn't comment on it, because 1♥ looks just about right to me. I don't mind light opening nor light responses. I would have doubled 5♦ rather hannnie bid 1♥ or passed. I held something like Qxx AQT xx AKQTx. We make 3♥, they make 4♦ (with less than ideal defense, they can make 5♦ as i can be endplayed if i don't lead a trump early enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 If you think responding 1♥ caused this problem, next time you can try a 2♥ WJS :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 I am temped to bid 1H too, but there's no way that 1C is going to be passed by LHO, so you could appear later in the bidding. Unless it goes 1C - (P) - P - (1D)P - (5D) or 1C - (P) - P - (Dbl)P - (5D) which is not very likely. Petko Why won't LHO pass out 1club, we have length in the majors and partner has a huge hand. I pass 1c or 1d often in pass out seat. Now we should get good score if opp make 3h and partner cannot overcall 1club. BTW what hand does partner have to bid 5d and cannot bid over one club? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted November 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 If you think responding 1♥ caused this problem, next time you can try a 2♥ WJS :D No actually, I can't. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 If partner can expect this hand in response, I simply say "wtp"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalvan14 Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 Well, notwithstanding my aggressivity (or maybe just for that :D ) I would not bid 1♥. I would like to have a defensive trick to do that.OTOH, I will be happiest of coming in later on. Btw, I assume you alert your 1-over-1 bids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 I guess i missed something, i thought 1H show 6+ hcp :-)The truth is everyone around me use wjs so there is no resson to bid light, we might even jump with 7 hcp, but if it suits your system then gl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ochinko Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 I am temped to bid 1H too, but there's no way that 1C is going to be passed by LHO, so you could appear later in the bidding. Unless it goes 1C - (P) - P - (1D)P - (5D) or 1C - (P) - P - (Dbl)P - (5D) which is not very likely. Petko Why won't LHO pass out 1club, we have length in the majors and partner has a huge hand. I pass 1c or 1d often in pass out seat. Now we should get good score if opp make 3h and partner cannot overcall 1club. BTW what hand does partner have to bid 5d and cannot bid over one club?It was exactly my point that the bidding won't be that fast so that we would miss our chance to bid if we start with passing 1C. Most of the points are obviously divided in the opponent's line. Who wouldn't balance in LHO's position, and risk missing a game after such a timid bidding? I would find it very hard to construct a hand where passing from LHO is possible after his partner didn't find values to overcall. When I now appear in the bidding it would be much more obvious that1. I don't fit the clubs.2. I bid on distribution just competing for the part score, and do not guarantee a defensive trick. Petko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartA Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 then i'll explain that my hand looked like a pass to me agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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