Poky Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 pass 1♦ dbl 1♠2♥ pass pass dbl??? What are now:rdbl2♠2NT3♣3♦3♥? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 It depends what the double means.I would be surprised to see any of these except 2NT and 3C at the tableIf double is take-out: rdbl: I have a good hand, probably fairly balanced, interested in penalising2S: I have four spades and 5 hearts and want to compete2NT: I also have 4 clubs, pick 3 of a rounded suit3C: I have 4 hearts and 5 clubs3D: doesn't exist (4 hearts & 6 diamonds, perhaps?)3H: I wanted to bid 3H last round, but didn't want you to raise. If double is penalties, a lot of them don't exist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 RDBL: 10-112♠ unavaible2NT unavaible3♣ 4-53♦ unavaible3♥ I would guess 5♥+5♣, but I am not sure, anyway its to preempt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ochinko Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 All the bids sound strange after 2H, but should mean a maximum (or close to maximum) passed hand. The only exception is the last one which is the strangest. First five contain 4 hearts, the last one - 5. They sound like we didn't see an Ace in our cards, and all of a sudden invite to game. rdbl - just points, no direction2Sp - cue bid, forcing to 3H2NT - I stop the spades (twice ?), but don't guarantee a diamond stopper3C - I have 4 clubs as well. Could be even 5 at MP, or if much weaker than the hearts3D - I stop the diamonds (twice ?), you can consider 3NT3H - competitive, 5 hearts, following the LOTT. This is the weakest of all HCP-wise. I don't expect LHO to pass 2Hx, and I don't expect to make a defensive trick, so please partner either sacrifice or pass, don't double them. I could even have 6 hearts and a hand that was too weak even for a 2H opening. Petko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 (edited) XX is interest in penalizing? points no direction? He's a passed hand. I don't see how either of those is possible. 10-11 is possible but seems silly, how often are you not worried about ending up in 2H XX? I would say XX does not exist. 2S natural I guess. I would assume 5-6. 4-5 as a passed hand would also seem suicidal. 2N. Secondary clubs, 2 card disparity. 6-4 seems ok, but again, as a passed hand most 6-4s would have opened something so it's hard to construct a hand I would do this with. I suppose a weak suit and strong clubs. 3C. Clubs, not 2 card disparity. 3D. Natural, again I would assume 6-5. 3H. Natural but again I can't think of a hand consistent with this bid. edit: this post was made on crack when i missed the takeout X (by pard) :) Edited October 27, 2005 by Jlall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 It's interesting that Justin agrees that 2NT and 3C both show hearts and clubs, but I think 3C shows much longer clubs and 2NT equal length, whereas he has it the other way round. Compare with these auctions:1D (4H) P P 4NT 1D (4H) P P5C I think the first shows a 5D bid with secondary clubs (maybe 6-4 or 7-4) and the second serious clubs (5-5 or 6-6 or 6-5). Justin probably agrees (I think this is pretty standard). So my logic says when extended to this auction that you bid the second suit when you are more serious about them, and bid NT when you are less serious about the second suit. Justin's says you bid NT with a disparity and the second suit with equal length. Both make some sense, but result in different bids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 oh well i misread the entire auction so that changes things rofl...i thought the auction went p 1D p 1S 2H p p X...hopefully my comments make more sense now :) ok for my real answer...since i was uhh just testing you guys to see if you were awake... XX= I guess like a balanced 9 or something (with more I would have bid more last time). 2S=natural, interest in competing 2N=clubs, longer/equal hearts 3C=clubs...longer clubs 3D=does not compute. 3H=competitive. Just noticed these are the exact same as Frances, good that we are on the same wavelength :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 pass 1♦ dbl 1♠2♥ pass pass dbl??? What are now:rdbl2♠2NT3♣3♦3♥? What are now: rdbl - Max 2♥, only 4 hearts. Something like: xxx, AKxx, QTxx, xx. 2♠ - Doesn't make sense, although I suppose some max 4-5 could fit: AQxx, Kxxxx, xx, xx. 2NT - Definitely doesn't make sense. With clubs, bid 'em. Could this be some kind of good/bad? Hmm. 3♣ - Probably 5-6 clubs and 4 hearts and a max. 3♦ - 4 hearts and 7 diamonds. 3♥ - 5 (6-8 points) or 6 hearts (any HCP) - competitive. This is probably a stupid way to play this. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 What are now:rdbl2♠2NT3♣3♦3♥? assuming the x was takeout: xx - hey, you doubled... do you like hearts or not, i have 4+ of them2s - for me this can only show 4 spades and 5+ hearts since i'd have x'd 1s to expose the psych (opposite p's t/o x) with equal or shorter hearts2nt - diamond stop(s), spade stop(s), hearts, but i *did* pass eh? 3c - clubs?3d - sigh... makes my teeth hurt3h - beats the hell outta me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalvan14 Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 It looks like that the majority understands 2♠ as spades . IMHO, if S wanted to expose the psyche by RHO (the bidding sequence was (1♦)-X-(1♠)) he should have doubled on the 1st round, to avoid messing up the auction later. Pard's X should promise at least 3-4 in the majors, unless it is a strong hand. So an immediate penalty double should be the best.I would understand 2♠ as a maximum of the passed hand (while 3♥ would be a minimum).Agreed for the interpretation of 2N/3♣ (both ♥/♣, the former with longer ♥).3♦ would be quite surprising: the only possible meaning would be again a max 2♥, with 3-4 small cards in ♦ (a kind of long suit trial, but without values which would be wasted. xx - KJxxx - xxx - KJx would be a minimum for this bid).XX is certainly a maximum balanced hand, with interest in penalising. It's an interesting thread. Edited a misprint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 I agree that South would usually have doubled 1S the previous round with spades. But perhaps we was concerned there was a heart game available? It's more that I couldn't think of any other meaning for 2S, than I think it will be a common auction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Agree with Frances's meanings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mila85 Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 pass 1♦ dbl 1♠2♥ pass pass dbl??? What are now:rdbl2♠2NT3♣3♦3♥?rdbl. - maximum (10-11) and I need a swing (it's too speculative)2♠ - 5-5, 10-11 hcp2nt,3♣ - ♥+♣? I can't imagine a hand where I want to show clubs. And I prefer not to use 2nt because partner is guessing what I want to say3♦ - ??? I would always respond 3♥ to this bid3♥ - preemtive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
000002 Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 In this case,20HCP vs 20HCP now show your hand to ur dear partner, please. let him can shape to proceed the competition. 2♠ or 3♦=0/1 in those Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalvan14 Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 Sorry, guys: I will never consider 2♠ as showing spades.Even the idea of having 2♠ and 3♦ as short suit trials is a bit farfetched.If you try to build up a conventional structure catering for all competitive bid situations you will never see the end. Better, IMO, to agree on a basic structure as natural as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
000002 Posted November 2, 2005 Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 natural ? dangerous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalvan14 Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 natural ? dangerous Maybe I should have put inverted commas : "natural". After all, the structure I proposed was not exactly natural. OTOH, I do believe that my tretment was not completely conventional: the meanings of the bids could be re-constructed by logic. I'm a bit surprised by the equation natural=dangerous. Should it not be the other way around? very conventional=dangerous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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