light openings in 3. seat

[42]

Hi!

I was reading in a book about MP strategy and it is recommended to open light in 3. seat (yes, old hat; no further bidding explained). So far so good, I understand the reason. BUT...

... when a major is opened we have Drury to ask for a minimum opening. What if the opening is in a minor? I feel a big problem when partner has a "maximum pass" with a balanced hand without 4card major. A jump to 2NT seems to be dangerous (if not weird), or? And a simple raise or a preempt with some, let's say 10-12, points seems also crazy since the opening is not guaranteed light. And with a balanced hand + 4card major: what does a 1NT rebid by opener show? Does he repeat his suit when he is weak? ;)

Caren

[helene_t]

Assuming a 15-17 1NT: If you open light in 3rd seat you will normaly be able to show this by passing responder's bid. I prefer to avoid opening a suit lower ranking than my doubleton, to avoid playing in a 4-2 fit. Not so sure this really matters in practice: opps will rarely allow you to play at the 1-level.

 

On the other hand, you would also like to open the better of two 4-cards. This conflict leads to some unbiddable hands with which I'll have to pass.

 

If partner opens 1♦ in 3rd seat and I have a 3334 with 11 points, I would prefer to bid 2♦ (invertered): 2NT may be too high and partner may pass 2♣ with a doubleton or even a singleton. If 1♦ is a light opening it is at least a good 4-card so 2♦ rates to be a reasonable contract.

 

If passing responder's bid is not an option (you have a doubleton or singleton spades, or 3s2h), I rarely open light in 3rd seat. Either pass or preempt.

 

It's more difficult when you open light and have to respond to partner's negative double. I don't think there's any good solution to this problem.

 

But it helps to have an aggresive 1st seat opening style. Then you have more freedom to pass or preempt in 3rd seat.

[luke warm]

i was taught that a 3rd seat opening in a minor should be fairly sound, since it's so easy to get out bid... course you can open 1nt or something :)

[Chamaco]

The usual guidelines for 3rd seat opening are:

 

1) lead directions

2) being able to pass any response by pard.

 

The problem, however, ariss when we do open light, LHO overcalls at the 2 level and pard bids a negative double.

 

So, a good 3rd rule of thumb for planning light actions in 3rd seat is:

 

3) have a bid ready if pard makes a negative double :)

 

=================

Regarding Notrump bids by a passed hand: with a balanced 10-11, bidding 1NT is enough.

[Guest Jlall]

To be realistic, there are many 11/12 counts (yes 12!) that I would bid 2N with after a 1m opener in third seat. I cannot simply cater to a light opening by bidding 1N and risk missing game when partner actually has their bid. It is all a question of frequency though. I would need a semi-decent 11 or a 12 that I wouldn't open, no 4 card major, and if I'm playing inverted minors as a passed hand I would even need no support for the minor (usually...4333 may bid 2N anyways). It's not a likely scenario to come up, but I agree a light 1m opening will be a loser if pard responds 2N. I'm ok with that since I think the gains of opening light are great, but there will be some losses.

[mike777]

:) Makes me glad I could never have a 2nt bid as a passed hand. :).

[pigpenz]

alot of matchpoint bids in3rd seat are purely lead directing........say akq♠ or kqj♠ only....in any suit is fine, but sometimesin the major it really pre empts things and sometimes keeps themout of a makeable 3nt

[tysen2k]

Open super-light in 1st seat. Then you won't have this problem. ;)

[pigpenz]

But it helps to have an aggresive 1st seat opening style. Then you have more freedom to pass or preempt in 3rd seat.

I was using Bridge Brower and it lets you do an analysis of your opening bids imps vs mp's....almost any time you open the bidding you tend to average +imps and 50%+matchpoints.

 

I was suprised that the ones that tend to be less than 50% are 2♥ and 3♥ pre empts, while 2/3♠ are better. 3minor are the same as the ♥ pre empts leave too much room for opps to find out their fits.

[mikeh]

I have long believed, and played, that one should open light in a major, especially in ♠, but never stretch to open 1minor in 3rd seat.

 

My subjective (thus error-prone, I admit) estimate of my matchpoint score for passed out hands is about 55-60%.. it is certainly well above average.

 

My view is that by opening 1minor, you make it easier for 4th seat to bid. Often times one finds that the hcp are roughly 11/11/9/9... and if rho and you hold the 11, then this board was being passed out until you opened. LHO overcalls in a major in these hands and you have usually lost the board.

 

In addition, as you have pointed out, it is uncommon to have a strength-limiting bid available over 1m, as one would often have (drury variants) over 1M.

 

My views and experiences are perhaps distorted by the fact that in all my serious partnerships over the past 15 years or so have used 10-12, 11-13 or 11-14 1N openers in 1st and 2nd (the lower two ranges only nv, the 11-14 all the time) so that partner is relatively unlikely to hold Justin's feared 11-12 flat hand.

[pigpenz]

IMy views and experiences are perhaps distorted by the fact that in all my serious partnerships over the past 15 years or so have used 10-12, 11-13 or 11-14 1N openers in 1st and 2nd (the lower two ranges only nv, the 11-14 all the time) so that partner is relatively unlikely to hold Justin's feared 11-12 flat hand.

same here my experiences come from playing 10-13NT at matchpoints, so its pretty safe to know that you arentgoing to get hung by partner for opening light ;)

So when we open light in third seat is strictly for lead directing purposes. Nothing worse than opening light on xxxx minor and not getting the right suit lead :(