What does double mean

[easy]

Matchpoint all vulnerable

 

lho     pard      rho     you

 

1d        2S        3h       p

3n        p          p         X

 

 

2s is a weak jump overcall.

 

 

What does double mean???

[the hog]

This is easy. (Sorry Easy!)

Without the X pd is expected to lead his suit. The X calls for a H lead.

[EricK]

This is easy. (Sorry Easy!)

Without the X pd is expected to lead his suit. The X calls for a H lead.

 

I disagree.

 

Without a double, overcaller shouldn't lead from, say, KJTxxx round to opener's assumed AQ.

 

The double says that I have help in your suit - it is safe to lead it.

 

Often, to make 3NT declarer will have to play Hearts himself, so leading it will just cost a tempo.

 

Eric.

[the hog]

A flawed response. Playing your style, partner of the weak 2 opener is virtually obliged to X everytime he holds Kx Qx Ax in partner's suit else partner won't lead the suit. This is silly.

 

You ignore one fundemental principle, the WJO is designed to put pressure on the opps. Here opener has bid 3NT under great pressure; he may have 2 stoppers, he may only have one. Why on earth do you presume he has to have the AQ?

 

If you are not prepared to lead the suit in which you have made a WJO, then don't make a WJO in the first place, else why make a noise?

 

Pray tell, how am I supposed to get a H lead in your partnerships holding AQJx of H and maybe an outside trick or so? Are all your partners prescient? You have a partner who has to find a lead, why are you making his life difficult?

 

Just for fun, give opener

Kx

x

AKQJxxx

xxx

 

opposite

 

Jx

Kxxxxx

xx

AKJ

 

This is consistent with the bidding. Your partner will no doubt lead a C, or worse still a S away from AQ.

[inquiry]

The answer to this question is a matter of partnership style. The lead directing double is just that, a convention, that has to be applied as you agree with your partner. So either lead a spade or lead a Heart can be the right answer,  and both sides can draw up hands to support their view.

 

So you could ask, in the absences of a specific partnership agreement, what is the STANDARD treatment. Here I think EricK is on the sound footing when you ask this question. If I was playing with a pick up partner, I would think the 3NTx called for a SPADE lead. Of course, there is no reason to believe what I was taught years ago about LEAD DIRECTING doubles is the standard treatment, but I believe it is. This is what I was taught as standard for lead directing double against 3NT.

 

1. If neither side bid a suit (1NT-P-3NT-X, or 2NT-P-3NT-X) I was to lead my shortest

major.

 

2. If neither of us has bid a suit, a double ask for the lead dummys first bid suit.

 

3. If both partner and I had bid suits, a double ask partner is to lead his suit, not mine.

 

4. If I had bid a suit and my partner has not (say 1C-P-1H-1S-1N-P-3N-X) the double asked for a lead of my suit.

 

5. If partner has bid a suit, a double ask him to lead his suit (as in this example).

 

Now, what we learned decades ago as STANDARD doesn’t have to be what we play today. Bridge logic has to be applied and your basic assumptions challenged. For instance, The_Hog assumes that a preemptor will essentially always lead his own suit unless he doubles. So he uses the double to request an a specific unusual lead aka a lightner slam double. What he didn't say is how he would have played the double if the bidding had gone 1D-1S-2H-P-2N-P-3N-DBL? Does he play that as still asking for a heart, or instead asking for a spade? Or 1D-1S-DBL-P-2N-P-3C-P-3N-X? (Hint, I use Rosenkrantz redbl on second auction, so 3Nx cannot ask for a Spade however you play lead directing doubles).

 

While EricK assumes anytime he is looking at a fitting spade honor, his partner will by necessity have a broken suit (since LHO bid NT). So he doubles to get partner to lead his suit DESPITE the bidding. At matchpoints, which is where EASY said this hand was played, there is a strong reason to play the double to request the lead of the suit. This is because partner will not want to lead from a broken suit and give up an extra trick. If you don’t have the fitting card, simply don’t double even when going down. Partner with a good sequence will lead it, and without, will lead something else. Of course, if you double, you had better have a good chance of beating it with a spade lead, as 3NTx making 9 is worse than 3NT not doubled making overtricks.

 

So how do I play these bids with partners with whom I have a non-standard agreement? I play  #1 - #3 as I originally learned it. Number 4 I play a little different. If I bid at the one level (especially an opening bid), my double now calls for dummy's first bid suit, if he had bid one.......unless, he bid and rebid his suit. If dummy has not bid a suit, then it ask for lead of my suit. The reason why, is without the double, just as The_Hog suggested in his analysis of the other hand, partner will lead my suit about 90% of the time. If I had a chance to double a cue-bid in my suit (I play the "don't lead my suit" type of doubles). If I didn't double the cue bid then do double 3NT, I want my suit lead.

 

Now this brings us to auction 5. There are several ways partner can bid a suit. He can open it, he can overcall it, or he can preempt in it. If partner opens a suit, and I never support or make a takeout double, then my 3NT dbl ask for dummy's first suit. The reason is I always support with support, or make negative type double without support and the other suits. Nothing else makes sense, I must have the suit my RHO bid if I have enough to double.

 

If partner makes a two level overcall, the tradition is that it is a fairly good suit. Here I play the double as requesting a lead of his suit. A fitting card doubleton is more than good enough, so here, my double request a lead of partners suit. And if partner overcalls, he may have enough side stregth that leading a side suit might look attractive without a double. If your partner overcalls on junky suit at the two level non-vul, then maybe you should not make this request his suit unless you are vul. Now to preempts. Here, I am a follower of Robson/Segal preempting theories, perhaps best described as a wild man pressure bidder not vul. A five card suit is not impossible even for a 3C preemptive bid. If my partner has just one matching Spade honor he will be sorely disappointed all too often if he doubles for lead when I am not vul. So, not vul, I play just as The_Hog suggested, a request for a different lead. But vul, the table has turned yet again. Vulnerable I have a fair hand with probably a defensive trick or two. Here, I treat the double just as I did with a 2-over-1 overcall. A request for partner to lead his suit. If I don't double, that doesn't mean partner will not lead his suit. But with KJT9xx and no double from me, he would at least consider the alternatives, especially at matchpoints.

[the hog]

While I agree that what to lead is predicated on partnership AGREEMENT - not STYLE, your comment is inapplicable as Eric is clearly describing a scenario in a pick up partnership. We are therefore discussing basic principles which can be applied without recourse to prior discussion; in this case a double requests dummy's suit. Following from this the bidding sequence about which you ask viz

(1D) 1S (2H) P

(2NT) P (3NT) P

 

Calls for ?? Well lets see..basic principles again ask for a H lead - the situation is totally analogous to one in the posted hand. Had I wanted partner to lead a S I would have raised or found a support X. A MUCH more interesting question is had I raised and then doubled, what should partner lead?

 

The matchpoint comment is a furphy in this context. If WJOvercaller holds KJxxxx and I have an honor in the suit, it is obvious that I want the suit led, probably even if overcaller has no entry. (At least no trick is blown by an injudicious lead). I can always switch if necessary. The scenario described by Eric implies that this suit will not be led unless I double. This is absurd; too often might I double and find declarer has 9 fast tricks, or can hold up or whatever. Also to change the meaning of the double according to vulnerability is to place added pressure on a partnership and likely to lead to misunderstandings in the heat of the auction.

 

Two pertinent questions have remained unanswered - if you are not prepared to lead your suit why make a noise? Perhaps to provide declarer with some extra information as to how to play the contract? Ha, playing against you a canny declarer may well confidently bid 3NT on Qx knowing that the suit is unlikely to be led.

 

Secondly, how do any of you beat the contract on the hand I posted if you cannot double? This is a rhetorical question as I already know the answer.

 

In conclusion, some comments regarding 4 of the scenarios you propose -

 

1. If neither side bid a suit (1NT-P-3NT-X, or 2NT-P-3NT-X) I was to lead my shortest  major.  

 

Many partnerships have altered this to say  "lead the shortest suit" This is more error prone however offers greater opportunity to beat a contract.

 

 

 

2. If neither of us has bid a suit, a double ask for the lead dummys first bid suit.

 

Correct

 

3. If both partner and I had bid suits, a double asks partner  to lead his suit, not mine.

 

Correct

 

4. If I had bid a suit and my partner has not (say 1C-P-1H-1S-1N-P-3N-X) the double asked for a lead of my suit.  

 

Incorrect. Partner is expected to lead my suit anyway. Why gild the lilly? A double here calls for an unusual lead, of course.

[easy]

Kantar says (From Defensive Bridge Play Complete or Defensive Tips)

 

C. Doubles of 3nt.

 

1. when no suits bid

 pard has a solid suit or a strong suit and an outside A. It's your job to decide which it is. Begin by eliminating any suit in which u have a jack or better.

 

2. When 2 suits have been bid by opponents.

 

Lead dummy's first bid suit.

 

3. When dummy has bid 2 suits.

 

You must decide from your hand.

 

4. When doubler has bid a suit

 

doubler wants you to lead his suit.

 

5. When doubler's partner bids a suit.

 

The double definitely shows strength in the dummy's first bid suit, so the opening leader must have a STRONG(i put emphasis on strong not kantar) in his own suit to lead it in preference to dummy's.

 

6. When doubler and partner have bid suits.

 

Here the opening leader must use judgement. if

a) his own suit has sequence , lead it.

B) if has high honor in partners suit and a weak suit of his own , he leads partners suit.

c) his own suit is weakish and an indifferent holding in partners suit, he leads dummys suit...for partner has promised strength in that suit.

The most common lead in this situation , however is partner's suit.

 

 

Well that's what Eddie says so in the above situation that i gave you eddie wants u to lead dummy's suit.

[the hog]

As I said from the outset, that was easy.

 

The fourth scenario above needs drastic reworking . If I have overcalled a suit or opened a major, I would expect pd to lead that without a X. The ONLY time I agree with the comment as presented is if playing a 5 card M system and I open 1m, this could be a short suit and perhaps might need to be re emphasised.

 

Else how do you beat

 

1H (2C) P (2S)

P   (2NT) P (3NT)

 

holding

AKJT

Axxxx

xxx

x

 

if you cannot X for a S lead? And please do not say we should have opened with that abomination of a bid, Flannery.

[easy]

As I said from the outset, that was easy

 

 

Well Hog i wish i had been playing with u that evening.i was the doubler of course. (no one ever puts their own dirty laundry out in public. ;)I held .

QJ98x of hearts and an outside ace. declarer was void in hearts. i doubled and my pard led a Spade. Dummy won its stiff king and declarer ran her suit for 10 tricks. (knocked out my A)

[the hog]

I held .  

QJ98x of hearts and an outside ace. declarer was void in hearts. i doubled and my pard led a heart. Dummy won its stiff king and declarer ran her suit for 10 tricks. (knocked out my A)

 

I am not sure I understand this. Are you saying that your rho bid 3H on a singleton K and declarer was void?

That can't be right, and if it is your pd has 7H to the Ace and should surely have led the A. (Mind you with 7H to the A in this situation and pd doubling for a H lead, I too would have wondered what was going on.)

 

I think you must have posted this incorrectly.

[easy]

Pard led spade. Post modified to reflect that. I guess it's time to go to bed because my post r makeing less sense every time.rofl

[EricK]

Pray tell, how am I supposed to get a H lead in your partnerships holding AQJx of H and maybe an outside trick or so? Are all your partners prescient? You have a partner who has to find a lead, why are you making his life difficult?

 

Just for fun, give opener

Kx

x

AKQJxxx

xxx

 

opposite

 

Jx

Kxxxxx

xx

AKJ

 

This is consistent with the bidding. Your partner will no doubt lead a C, or worse still a S away from AQ.

 

My partner will hopefully lead a Heart.  Of course, I will have made a penalty double of 3H to makes things easy for him.

 

Eric