Drury

[Guest Jlall]

I was joking with someone earlier about how drury is basically a controlled psyche. I mean, partner rebids their major if they opened a yarb in 3rd seat, and you almost never bid over that, or they bid 2D if they actually had their bid but nothing extra, or they bid something else. How is this really different than a controlled psyche?

[Gerben42]

Depends on how you use it. The way I use it is that

* rebidding the major shows about 9 - 11

* bidding 2♦ shows about 12 - 14

* jumping to game (3NT / 4M) shows about 15+

* something else shows slam interest

 

That's not a controlled psyche, it's a range check.

[Guest Jlall]

Sure, but if you happened to have opened your AKxx and out in 3rd seat, you are safe because you know partner will drury then you can safely show your "9-11" range.

[hrothgar]

Your suggestion certainly is not without support. Up until relatively recently, Drury was banned in England because it was considered a psychic control.

[pclayton]

Yeah its supposed to be a range ask, but the range can drift into 10 counts, 9 counts, 8's and ...........oops I psyched, nice catch partner. :)

 

If a partnership says that the Drury bidder has to pass 2♠ after a sequence like pass - 1♠ - 2♣ - 2♠ holding something like: Kxxxx, x, AKxx, xxx, I'd be mighty suspicious. Clearly he is catering to the 3rd chair psyche of AQxx, xxx, x, xxxxx and the like.

[junyi_zhu]

I was joking with someone earlier about how drury is basically a controlled psyche. I mean, partner rebids their major if they opened a yarb in 3rd seat, and you almost never bid over that, or they bid 2D if they actually had their bid but nothing extra, or they bid something else. How is this really different than a controlled psyche?

The main goal of drury is that it allows you to invite at 2 level, and I don't like it's current treatment because it does have psyche control involved. Suppose you play

1S 2C 2S to show hands that has no extra, other rebids are natural and at least a game try, then nothing would be wrong here.

[Guest Jlall]

Your suggestion certainly is not without support. Up until relatively recently, Drury was banned in England because it was considered a psychic control.

Really? Did not know this, thanks for the info. Why did they lift the ban?

[mikeh]

The negative response to drury does not reveal a psyche. The hand type ostensibly described (the precise definition is a partnership issue) is a hand with which opener has zero interest in game opposite a maximum drury response. This obviously would include AKxx and out, but it could, and usually would, include a 10-11 count with 4-5 trumps and horrible shape.

 

By contrast, a psychic control reveals a psyche, pure and simple. I know, because I used to play this :)

 

We played (in my much, much younger days) mandatory openings in 1st and third, favourable, if we held 0-4 hcp, provided that we never held an A or K outside of the suit opened and we always held 3+ cards in the suit opened. Jacoby 2N responses or jumpshifts acted as a psychic control: I believe that 3♣ showed either a stiff ♣ or a psyche and 3♦ asked, and over the jumpshift, a rebid of opener's suit showed a psyche.

 

I am not suggesting that this made sense, but it was 'fun' in a twisted, not-very-good-bridge sort of way [We pre-alerted and made full disclosure and alerted each 'suspicious' opening].

 

So I do not think that drury is really a psychic control. Indeed, responder is allowed to double the balancing opps after a negative drury response, or to take the push in competition with the right hand, relying upon partner not to have a psyche. If the partnership agrees that responder cannot do either, them I think there is a stronger case for saying that this pair uses drury as a psychic control.

[dogsbreath]

..

lifting the ban catches people like me who forget that we play Drury :)

 

Rgds Dog

[barmar]

I guess it depends on whether you consider opening light by 3-4 HCP to be a "gross misstatement of your values". Since opening light in 3rd seat is considered normal these days, especially if you have Drury in your system, the opponents are not really misled.

 

And the lighter you open, the more likely it is that 4th seat will be able to overcall, in which case you usually lose your ability to use Drury; if responder has to cue-bid to show a limit raise, you still end up at the 3 level.

[SoTired]

By contrast, a psychic control reveals a psyche, pure and simple. I know, because I used to play this :D

 

We played (in my much, much younger days) mandatory openings in 1st and third, favourable, if we held 0-4 hcp, provided that we never held an A or K outside of the suit opened and we always held 3+ cards in the suit opened. Jacoby 2N responses or jumpshifts acted as a psychic control: I believe that 3♣ showed either a stiff ♣ or a psyche and 3♦ asked, and over the jumpshift, a rebid of opener's suit showed a psyche.

:) ooo, mikeh, sounds similar to a system my brother invented in the late 60's.

 

Its features were:

0-5 = psyche - opener passes all but jump-shift. Over jump-shift, opener rebids suit to show psyche.

6-8 = pass - alertable!

9-10/11 = open 1D,1H,1S - Simple non-NT, non-reverse rebid

11-14 = open 1N or 1D,1H,1S - rebid NT, reverse or jump. Tend to open 1N with semi-bal

15+ = 1C

I forget what the 2-level bids were used for.

 

It was a devastating MP system. They banned the mandatory psyche to deal with it. So my brother eliminated psyches from the system and changed its name to "Light Openers." Even with no psyches (pass=0-8), it was a devastating MP system. So later they banned it completely, even though many experts were playing light opening bids in the 9-10 range.

[Al_U_Card]

Seems to me that on the ACBL cc there is a spot for light overcalls and light 3rd seat openings. Granted 7 or 8 hcp in 3rd seat with a hand not suited for a 2-bid is tempting, do not most use the bid to show a rule of 15 type of hand? Psychic controls having been outlawed, surely anyone using this tactic with 0-4 hcp would be found out soon enuf.....

[GeeGee]

I may be wrong, but I don't think Drury was ever banned in England. Initially it was restricted to the EBU level 4 competitions and above, which meant out of the reach of the average club player. Now it's at level 2, which is just above simple systems.

 

I guess the reason the EBU relaxed the restriction would have been by 'popular demand', that is, someone asked for it.

[hrothgar]

Your suggestion certainly is not without support.  Up until relatively recently, Drury was banned in England because it was considered a psychic control.

Really? Did not know this, thanks for the info. Why did they lift the ban?

Hi Justin:

 

I did a quick scan trying to track down Drury's history in the EBU. From what I can tell, the "ban" was lifted in the 1998 revision to the Orange Book.

 

Unclear why the change occured.

I hope that one of the Brits might be able to explain.

[Walddk]

It is a controlled psyche if:

 

1. Opener is not allowed to jump to game over Dury.

2. Responder is not allowed to bid on over a minimum by opener.

 

Then nothing seriously bad can happen because you never go beyond the 2-level. Psyches that involve no risk are controlled psyches.

 

Roland

[barmar]

It is a controlled psyche if:

 

1. Opener is not allowed to jump to game over Dury.

Why is that requirement necessary? It seems like it's there to cater to the Drury bid being a psyche, not the opening.

[Walddk]

It is a controlled psyche if:

 

1. Opener is not allowed to jump to game over Dury.

Why is that requirement necessary? It seems like it's there to cater to the Drury bid being a psyche, not the opening.

It's a 2-way controlled psyche if you like and should therefore not be allowed. Responder can, without fear of getting too high, Drury with most any hand if opener is not allowed to jump to game.

 

Roland

[DrTodd13]

IMO, "controlled psyches" do not exist. A psyche by definition deviates from partnership agreement. If you have an agreement that a certain bid X in a certain sequence is either one hand or another very weak hand type and you have a mechanism by which responder can determine which one you have then what you have is a convention, not a controlled psyche. If you don't tell the opponents that you with any regularity possess the very weak hand type then you are guilty of failure to alert/misinformation and not guilty of using a controlled psyche. There are numerous bidding scenarios where one hand simply answers questions and the other hand determines when to stop and where to place the contract. In these scenarios, the hand that asks the questions can pretty much "psyche" at will. Such psyches are becoming so prolific in one system that I play that I'm wondering what the proper form to disclose them is. Do I pre-alert and say "we frequently hold weak hands when we make invitational+ relay initiating bids" and/or do I say "invitation+ or tactical weak hand" everytime I make such a bid?

[Walddk]

Before banning Drury in the UK they saw too many of this (I am told):

 

Pass Pass 1♠ pass

2♣

 

and opener passed with a hand like

 

x

Qxx

Jxxx

KJ10xx

 

Agreed, the psyche has now been revealed, but it is still much more difficult for the other side to get into a controlled auction, especially after responder has shown at least 3 spades (unless he psyched too).

 

Roland

[Finch]

Drury can be used as a psychic control but it doesn't have to be. If you Drury on a nice 10- or 11-count and then pass partner's sign-off, and partner turns out to have a 7-count, you will be ruled to have fielded the psyche (the consequences depend on jurisdiction).

 

I happily play 3- and 4-card Drury, and also frequently move after opener's sign-off.

 

As a side issue, if you have 4-card support and partner signs off having opened on a 7-count with 4+ cards in the suit, it's much more effective to re-raise anyway.

 

p.s. yes, "psychic control" is a bit of an oxymoron, what this commonly-used phrase means is "concealed partnership understanding"

[mycroft]

Two cases:

 

1) ACBL. You are not allowed to have the agreement to open one of a suit with fewer than 8 HCP (their interpretation of "a king less than average". If you open 1M regularly with AQxx and out (I'm leaving out AKxx and AQJxxxx for the borderline fanatics) then either you have "grossly misstated the strength of your hand" or you have an illegal agreement. I think most people would take the "I psyched" road to the "We deliberately play something not allowed by regulations" road...

 

2) I always thought the "controlled psychic" part of drury was the psych in clubs, not the micro-real opener. Shows that I am not devious enough! I will admit, from the one time I did it, p-1S-2C!-p can be *very effective*!

 

Frances: I believe what you want here is "illegal concealed partnership understanding" (I know, not always, see Forget Transfers in the ACBL) :-). "Systemic psychics": see psychic control, qv.

 

Michael.

[han]

If you Drury on a nice 10- or 11-count and then pass partner's sign-off, and partner turns out to have a 7-count, you will be ruled to have fielded the psyche (the consequences depend on jurisdiction).

Why is this? Partner says she has no interest in game opposite a passed hand, so why would you field the psych by passing?

 

In third seat I always open with a 10 count and a decent 5-card suit, and I regularly open with 9 or 8 points and a good major when non-vulnerable. These opening bids are alerted, and partner will certainly not bid on after I sign off after drury. The opponents are not mislead, and I certainly do not consider this a psych.

 

Holding KQxx x AJxxx xxx I prefer to immediately jump to 2NT if partner opens 1S in third or fourth seat.

[mr1303]

Yes, I also play that P 1M 2NT shows a good raise with 4 trumps and some shape. Thus I use drury on the balanced hands, whereby I don't want to get to the 3 level.

 

Without drury, I have to bid 3S or something equally awful on:

 

JTx

KJxx

Kx

QJxx

 

which is invariably a transfer to 1 off, if not more.

 

With a hand like

 

Kxxxx

x

AKxx

xxx

 

I'd bid 2NT here, and in all likelihood go on to 4S even if partner tried signing off in 4S. Bidding drury does not show the playing strength of the hand.

[Flame]

In the book "the art of psychs bids" they say some countries band drury because its a controll psychs convention.

I think it is a control psych but i also think control psychs is the best bridge and should be allowed.

[Flame]

IMO, "controlled psyches" do not exist.  A psyche by definition deviates from partnership agreement.  If you have an agreement that a certain bid X in a certain sequence is either one hand or another very weak hand type and you have a mechanism by which responder can determine which one you have then what you have is a convention, not a controlled psyche.  If you don't tell the opponents that you with any regularity possess the very weak hand type then you are guilty of failure to alert/misinformation and not guilty of using a controlled psyche.  There are numerous bidding scenarios where one hand simply answers questions and the other hand determines when to stop and where to place the contract.  In these scenarios, the hand that asks the questions can pretty much "psyche" at will.  Such psyches are becoming so prolific in one system that I play that I'm wondering what the proper form to disclose them is.  Do I pre-alert and say "we frequently hold weak hands when we make invitational+ relay initiating bids" and/or do I say "invitation+ or tactical weak hand" everytime I make such a bid?

I agree with you on the princple but the problem is problem is you cant explain some of those bids because they are random.

Its not allowed to explain a 3rd hand opening 1S as could be anything.