Walddk Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 [hv=d=e&v=e&s=skqj1095h10d7cq9532]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv] You are South, non vulnerable against vulnerable. East opens a weak 2♥, and you decide (whether you like it or not) that 3♠ is the proper bid. LHO raises to 4♥, and that comes back to you. Do you bid again? Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Dodgy Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 reluctantly, yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 lol@3S. If I wanted to be consistent, I would pass here. However I'm never going to defend 4H white/red with this hand so I feel I have to bid 4S. Obviously 3S would not occur to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 3♠: I must have lost an Ace or two (or three) by the time the bid came back to me :P My guess is that partner hesitated over 4♥ and now it is my turn. The problem for me is that I cannot put myself in the position of a 3♠ bidder: having made a bizarre bid, how can I say what is normal now? Pass is a logical alternative: for all I know, the opps have missed slam due to my bid :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr1303 Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 Presumably I bid 3S because I think I'm playing weak jump overcalls over weak 2s. This is a pretty good one, but it's nothing approaching a strong jump overcall, and an intermediate jump overcall has defence, which this doesn't. In which case, no, I definitely don't bid again, at this or any vulnerability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker_gib Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 3♠ wow :huh: Having made that bid, I will pass now and hope that opps have missed a slam. Alain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 3S? I would much rather pull out a Leaping Michaels 4C; I even prefer a unilateral 4S. Yes an overbid, but at least we will play in the correct suit. Having totally misbid previously. I pass now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 Maybe 5♠ will be a good sacrifice. 4♠ makes little sense since partner will double 5♥ and I have no reason to believe it will go down. So if I don't pass I must be willing to bid 5♠ and maybe I might as well bid it right away. If my 3♠ call was according to partnership agreement, I could try 4♠ now. But I suppose it wasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blofeld Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 "One view per hand." Good maxim. I obviously took my view when I bid 3♠. I'm not quite sure what I was thinking when I did so, but I'd better pass now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurek S Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 Yes, someone told m long ago to play the hand with 11 cards in 2 suits,Bd 4♠ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 I have no clue, is 3♠ preemptive in my partnership? then I will pas to be consistent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 Roland - I hope youre not even remotely suggesting that 3♠ can be bid on this hand....... I'd overcall 2♠ and throw it in against 4♥. To bid 3♠ and then bid 4? Aye carumba! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted October 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 Roland - I hope youre not even remotely suggesting that 3♠ can be bid on this hand....... I am not suggesting anything. This was what happened at the table. Here is the full deal (rotated for convenience): [hv=d=s&v=n&n=s83hak6dqj98cakj4&w=skqj1095h10d7cq9532&e=s742h853da1064c876&s=sa6hqj9742dk532c10]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] South opened 2♥, 3♠ by West and 4♥ from North. Now, as MikeH rightly spotted, an agreed hesitation by East before passing. West bid 4♠, doubled by North for 300. The Tournament Director adjusted the score to 4♥+1 for NS, but the committee overruled, and back it was to 4♠X down 2. The committee: 1. Pass is not a logical alternative for West.2. Bidding 4♠ is not demonstrably better after the hesitation, so it has not become more attractive for West to bid. What do I think? Wrong decision by the committee. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blofeld Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 Can you tell us what 3♠ showed under the partnership's agreements? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted October 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 Can you tell us what 3♠ showed under the partnership's agreements? West thought he was too weak to overcall 2♠ and 4♠, so he settled for the compromise. East said that he tried to figure out what 3♠ was, hence the hesitation. I am not quite sure what to do with the West hand, by the way. 2♠, 3♠ and 4♠ are all strong to me. "You don't pre-empt over pre-empts". I don't think EW had a clear agreement about this. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycroft Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 I believe Pass to be a logical alternative anywhere; I'm not sure, however, that bidding is demonstrably suggested over passing by the hesitation. It does depend on what 2S, 3S (if anything) and 4S initially would mean. I know we aren't supposed to be looking at the hands, but apart from East's three Spades - and it's a flat hand, so we aren't getting any ruffs in the short hand - there's nothing that I would want to encourage sacrificing with. My only asset is pure for defence. Okay, so East doesn't have his hesitation. What does the hesitation show - demonstrably? The AC said "bidding" - I assume over passing or doubling; ok, show me. Michael. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 I think that pass is a logical alternative to anybody who would consider bidding 3S. To get a better answer you would have to check his/her peers, so post this in the BI forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted October 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 I think that pass is a logical alternative to anybody who would consider bidding 3S. To get a better answer you would have to check his/her peers, so post this in the BI forum. I find this somewhat insulting considering that the person who bid 3♠ is a junior international. He did not play with his regular partner at the time, and as I said, I don't think they had an agreement regarding jumps over a weak 2. Anyway, it's beside the point. The point is: is he allowed to bid 4♠ next, so please answer that question instead. Let me add that on the Danish web site, http://www.netbridge.dk, there is far from a unanimous decision among 38 replies. The tendency goes towards "no, you can't bid, and blame it on partner, because he had nothing to think about". Finally, it could be nice to know how you define 2♠, 3♠ and 4♠ over a weak 2. Or do you also want me to raise that question in the BI forum? Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 2S decent hand, 3S good hand, 4S really good hand. Sorry to be so detailed :P It would not occur to me to defend 4H on this hand but others think pass is an LA so I will defer to them. I guess bidding shouldn't be allowed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_U_Card Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 Seems to me that the "bidders" are thinking a 4S sac on that 6-5 in the blacks no matter what so why not bid 4? The 3S bid is not my particular choice and while leaping michaels has potential, does it not tend to show a better hand re: hcp etc? Since a lot can be said for 4S initially or eventually, how you got there (hesitations or not) was more or less irrelevent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted October 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 2S decent hand, 3S good hand, 4S really good hand. Sorry to be so detailed :P Fair enough, so in which category do you place the West hand? It is neither! Not even for a leaping Michaels. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 I would bid 2S with this hand, admittedly way too light on defense for that bid... With a weaker hand but similar I would pass and bid later (can't preempt over a preempt...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted October 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 I would bid 2S with this hand, admittedly way too light on defense for that bid... With a weaker hand but similar I would pass and bid later (can't preempt over a preempt...) And you would feel sick if the bidding proceeds 4♥, double to you. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 And you would feel sick if the bidding proceeds 4♥, double to you. Roland not at all...X would not show hearts to me, it would just show some values. I'd like my chances in 4S then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junyi_zhu Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 I would bid 2S with this hand, admittedly way too light on defense for that bid... With a weaker hand but similar I would pass and bid later (can't preempt over a preempt...) Bridge is a game of spades, gotta bid 2S over 2H I believe. 2S is from a good weak 2 or weak 3 to a normal opener. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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