Slam bidding

[Al_U_Card]

[hv=d=w&v=n&n=saq3hk654d72cat94&s=sk754haqt3dajt8c8]133|200|Scoring: IMP

p-1♣ -p- 1♦

p-1♥-2♣-4♥

all pass[/hv]

 

Better method to show this hand? Use the interference or? Continue the bidding with opener's hand?

[Guest Jlall]

If south bid 4C over 2C that'd do the trick.

[mikeh]

I admit that I would miss slam here: not that reaching slam is any bargain after the auction: East has 6+ ♣ for his overcall and I have a lot of handling issues here.

 

Anyway, the South hand knows that North is limited and that they hold at most a 4-4 fit, so I would expect 4♥ to be the normal bid. Even if S bid 4♣, North nothing special: good holdings in the blacks but awful holdings in the reds.

 

Opener has NO bid on the auction as given: if any partner of mine bid over my 4♥ (if I were responder), that would signal the end of the partnership.

[mike777]

Playing Walsh style you rebid 1nt with north hand and 2H game force with south hand. Now North can bid 3H.

 

Looking at it LTC style assume north has 7 LTC hand and south has 5.5 LTC=24-7-5.5=11.5 tricks estimate. Close to slam try hand. I guess to make a slam try with 4D over 3H now but agree it is close. Assume partner has around 12 to 13 hcp and a balanced hand so this is a real underpoint slam so I may be bidding a bit double dummy here.

[Guest Jlall]

its not like this is a great slam.

[Al_U_Card]

its not like this is a great slam.

I guess I'm more interested in method to make sure that my (south) holding is well described. For me, the 4H bid said that C was not a problem and that I have the values for game opposite any minimum opener with 4H.........The only pair that didnt make 6 were the ones that bid it (makes sense in a perverse sort of way...lol)

[mike777]

Looking at it FTL we get:

13-3(dist) + 1 or 2 (whether we assume 24 whcp or 25 whcp). Close very close.

[Blofeld]

This post is not helpful, as it points out merely that you get there if north opens a weak no trump and south uses Keri's transfer splinters.

 

On the other hand, I like 4♣ over 2♣.

[Guest Jlall]

I guess I'm more interested in method to make sure that my (south) holding is well described.

Right, that's what i meant when I said 4C does the trick. It describes a hand with heart support, short clubs, and slam interest. Exactly what you have.

[Free]

4♣ was the first bid that popped into my mind after the 2♣ overcall... Partner should know it's a splinter, and can evaluate his hand properly.

[luke warm]

i agree with blofeld that weak nt can get you there... whether or not justin's 4C does it i don't know, but north does have 5 controls so he should cooperate

[mikeh]

I agree with Justin in that, if you think that this South hand is worth a slam move, then 4♣ is the bid. 4♥ is the opposite of a slam move.

 

The 2♣ call left a lot of room. South could establish a force by bidding 3♣ and then showing ♥. That would be a move towards slam without any indication of a ♣ control.

 

4♣ is a similar playing strength bid: game force with a littel extra: but revealing a stiff ♣.

 

Neither 3 nor 4♣ requires a lot of extra strength: one of the skills one develops over time is to recognize the possibility of making mildly investigative moves below game without getting partner too stirred up.

 

4♥, by eschewing either of the available slam tries, sends a clear message that South is not interested in slam unless North has an unusual hand: say a hand too big to open 1N (15-17) if balanced.

 

As for me, I do not think that the South hand quite qualifies for the splinter. It is very close, but I do not generally fall in love with 4441 hands. Make it 3=4=5=1 with the same high cards, and I would splinter.

[civill]

IMO 1♥ instead of 1♦ responding to 1♣ is better,then what's your next bid?

 

[1♣ - 1♥][2♥/(3♣)/?

[Guest Jlall]

I don't see any reason not to bid up the line with a good hand. I thought even Walsh players did that.

[civill]

There are many good chances for the small slam:

1,♥ distribution is not freak ,or not short at east;

2,♠ distribution is 3-3;

3,♦K and ♦Q not both at west;

4,?

[mike777]

Yes, Walsh bids up the line with game force hand but North can only rebid 1h after 1c=1d with unbalanced hand, 5-4, otherwise rebid 1nt. North assumes South is less than g/f.

 

Agree with Justin's point about not starting with 1H by south. Is it not nice to see if North is balanced minimum or unbalanced hand? Is it not nice to be 100% sure that north is raising you with 4 and not some rare 3 card suit?

[mr1303]

Keri sequence: Presumably:

 

 

1NT 3S(singleton club)

4C (no wastage)

 

4H? would get passed

4D, get's 4H from opener. Now what?

 

I'm not convinced that a submarine splinter solves all the problems here. The continuations after the cue-bid don't seem well defined to me.

[TheoKole]

I think the key to the bidding is to splinter with 4 ♣ instead of bidding 4 ♥.

 

Opener can then start to imagine a slam and procede by asking for Aces. with no club losers, the hand should be safe for the 5 level.

 

Many people do not beleive that you can splinter in an openers suit, I say why not?

Especially if that suit is a minor.

 

With the concept of "Biddable Suits" going the way of the relic, opener could have been forced to open Clubs or Diamonds (by virtue of playing 5 card majors) when their playing strength is in the major suits.

 

I think the splinter gets the ball rolling in that direction.

 

Theo

[Al_U_Card]

Thanks, in the actual case my pick-up pard was an unknown quantity so the 4H was a "best bet under the circumstances" bid. I really like the 4C usage and will discuss it with my regular pard. I also bypass the 4 card Major suits in a balanced hand.

[Trpltrbl]

I bid 4♣, showing my hand in 1 bid, what a concept :lol:

 

GBB :lol: