Gerben42 Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 You have: [hv=d=w&v=e&s=sj8543htdat763cq3]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv] Pass 1♥ Double 1♠Pass 2♣ Pass 2♦*Pass 3♠ Pass ? * Not 4th suit forcing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr1303 Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 Pass. Not close. My suit is ratty, I have a singleton in partner's suit, which is NOT helpful, I have a lot of diamond losers which I won't be able to ruff when the opponents make the blindingly obvious trump lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 Wow I was about to write "4S wtp." As of now I'm outvoted 4-1 though lol. Well to me 3S shows a LOT of extras. Partner could have bid 2S which would show extras (IE 3514 15 count). He must have a nice 17 or 3505 with compensating values or so, just under jump shift strength. My diamond card being the ace instead of something wasted is a big plus, my CQ seems to be useful, and I have 5 trumps. I imagine game will be touch and go, but we are red at imps so that's fine with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcphee Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 4S being vulnerable holds appeal for me and while it may not make I have gone down before. I hope they do lead trumps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbleighton Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 "Well to me 3S shows a LOT of extras." To me too. Pd is telling me to go to game if I have 5 spades, unless I responded light. 4S for me. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker_gib Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 4♠ too Alain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcLight Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 4♠ There is a decent chance I'll go down, but given the scoring, I think its worth it.I assume pard has 3 Spades and Im hoping they are at least 2 honors. My ♣Q may be useful, and maybe I can set up pards ♥. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 We are NOT vulnerable. Still 4♠ looks clear to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben42 Posted October 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 I'm not sure if it's the "Justin effect" but 4♠ has now overtaken Pass in the poll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 I'm not sure if it's the "Justin effect" but 4♠ has now overtaken Pass in the poll. FWIW, when I vote in a bidding poll here, I always force myself to vote before reading the comments. We learn the most from mistakes, and unless you commit yourself to make the possible mistake, you may not realize you would have made a mistake in misjudging the hand somewhat, or missing an aspect of the situation. But I guess not everybody does that. Arend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 Gerben did you change the vul? I swear it said NS lol. Mcphee also thought we were vul...tell me I'm not goin nuts this morning :) Anyways, white I would bid it but it's much closer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blofeld Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 I'm not sure if it's the "Justin effect" but 4♠ has now overtaken Pass in the poll. FWIW, when I vote in a bidding poll here, I always force myself to vote before reading the comments. We learn the most from mistakes, and unless you commit yourself to make the possible mistake, you may not realize you would have made a mistake in misjudging the hand somewhat, or missing an aspect of the situation. But I guess not everybody does that. Arend I do the same, Arend. I was a passer here, but I really wasn't sure. I'm not used to not playing fourth suit forcing, so I'm not entirely clear what I've promised on this auction. Presumably I've already shown five spades? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben42 Posted October 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 Well it's not 4th suit forcing because of the double. No sorry Justin, quite sure I didn't change it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 4S seemed clear to me too...... before reading the comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_U_Card Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 Since you have a pretty minimum type hand for the 1S bid, why didn't pard jump shift? His 2C is pretty restrained and his 3S would be invitational to me (as the bidding was explained re: not FSF and only showing 2 suits) Since pard is inviting with a minimum (at imps that is the norm, is it not?) I will take my plus 140 to the bank. (the trumps are breaking badly, pards cards are in front of the t/o doubler etc.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_U_Card Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 I'm not sure if it's the "Justin effect" but 4♠ has now overtaken Pass in the poll. What about "Justin time"?....lol :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSilver Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 Since you have a pretty minimum type hand for the 1S bid, why didn't pard jump shift? His 2C is pretty restrained and his 3S would be invitational to me (as the bidding was explained re: not FSF and only showing 2 suits) Since pard is inviting with a minimum (at imps that is the norm, is it not?) I will take my plus 140 to the bank. (the trumps are breaking badly, pards cards are in front of the t/o doubler etc.)This makes good sense to me. Funny, I also thought we were red and was going to bid 4, but if white, I'll play the partial. In other words, it's a close decison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_U_Card Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 Once it is clear that the bid is an invite, it goes to the court of +/-'s For what I promised, I am minimum.....-I will take the tap in 2 suits......-I have the D ace and can ruff D in dummy.....+Except for my D ace, our honors are likely to be poorly placed......- looks like the -'s win Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben42 Posted October 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 Thanks for your responses! This hand is from the Atlanta Appeals. Partner alerted 2♦ as 4th suit forcing, even though you would have redoubled with such a hand. 3♠ is two down, 4♠, well, three down :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfgauss Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 Thanks for your responses! This hand is from the Atlanta Appeals. Partner alerted 2♦ as 4th suit forcing, even though you would have redoubled with such a hand. 3♠ is two down, 4♠, well, three down :P Not that it's relevant to the appeal or bid here, but I wouldn't change my system here over a double. I think one should usually bid spades when you have them, even with a good hand, in this situation. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 I have no experience in these situations since 2♦ would have been artificial for me. I see it was not 4th suit, but was it forcing at all? If it showed values, and was a one round force, then the jump need not show a huge hand. If it could be passed (say KJxx x Qxxxxx xx) then the jump to 3♠ shows the hand Justin expects. In the former case, a trump lead (what? a trump lead surprises you? I bet not) probably beats game: picture K10x AKxxx x AJxx... a minimum opposite a one round force perhaps but surely too much to bid 2♠ on. In the latter case, opener may hold AQx AKxxx AJxx and now I need to be in game. So I am going to do what is a first for me: abstain If I am not allowed to abstain, then I guess 4♠ just because I like bidding games and defence is the toughest part of the game. Plus with all you guys at the other table, this way i get a push :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 Thanks for your responses! This hand is from the Atlanta Appeals. Partner alerted 2♦ as 4th suit forcing, even though you would have redoubled with such a hand. 3♠ is two down, 4♠, well, three down :PThe more common expert practice (if not playing that redouble starts transfers) is for the redouble to show a balanced hand, usually with no fit, and interest in penalizing the opps. With other hands, just ignore the double, thus 4th suit would still be on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 I have no experience in these situations since 2♦ would have been artificial for me. I see it was not 4th suit, but was it forcing at all? If it showed values, and was a one round force, then the jump need not show a huge hand. If it could be passed (say KJxx x Qxxxxx xx) then the jump to 3♠ shows the hand Justin expects. In the former case, a trump lead (what? a trump lead surprises you? I bet not) probably beats game: picture K10x AKxxx x AJxx... a minimum opposite a one round force perhaps but surely too much to bid 2♠ on. Mike, I think Justin's argument that 2♠ shows extras has not so much to do with the question of whether 2♦ is forcing, but with the style of opener's rebid.If your style is that you always raise 1♠ to 2♠ with an unbalanced hand and a minimum, then you always show extras when you first bid 2♣ and then show 3 spades. Since, I think, 2♠ should show 3 spades, you cannot have a minimum hand for that, and it would do justice to the KTx AKxxx x AJxx hand you are giving. Arend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 Wow down 3, Ok I will ask since no one else did, what was pard's hand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 Wow I was about to write "4S wtp." As of now I'm outvoted 4-1 though lol. Well to me 3S shows a LOT of extras. Partner could have bid 2S which would show extras (IE 3514 15 count). He must have a nice 17 or 3505 with compensating values or so, just under jump shift strength. My diamond card being the ace instead of something wasted is a big plus, my CQ seems to be useful, and I have 5 trumps. I imagine game will be touch and go, but we are red at imps so that's fine with me. 2♠ is a simple preference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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