What's your treatment?

[Winstonm]

1D-X-P-2D

 

I believe so far there is fairly common expert agreement that so far responder has shown either a weakish major/major hand and is asking doubler to pick or he holds a forcing hand which he will clarify on the next bid.

 

What if the auction progresses:

 

1D-X-P-2D

P - 3D

 

What should this mean? Would the meaning alter if the auction was:

 

1H-X-P-2H

P -3H?

 

What are your treatments here?

 

Winston

[mikeh]

I disagree: it may be that I am woefully out of step, but my understanding of expert practice for 1♦ x p 2♦ is that it shows a decent 11 count or so, and establishes a force until a suit has been bid and raised, or game is bid.

 

Thus (1♦) x (P) 2♦ (P) 2♥ is forcing: not that doubler shows extras but rather that advancer has promised another bid. A raise to 3♥ by advancer can be passed, but a change of suit or a bid of 2N cannot.

 

With a weak hand, and both majors, bid a major: usually 1♠ with equal so that advancer can show the second suit if appropriate.

[mike777]

I would think a cuebid must be forcing and show invite+ and some hand that could not make Jump invite. Example:

1d=x=p=2h, etc.

[Winstonm]

I disagree: it may be that I am woefully out of step, but my understanding of expert practice for 1♦ x p 2♦ is that it shows a decent 11 count or so, and establishes a force until a suit has been bid and raised, or game is bid.

 

Thus (1♦)  x  (P)  2♦  (P)  2♥ is forcing: not that doubler shows extras but rather that advancer has promised another bid. A raise to 3♥ by advancer can be passed, but a change of suit or a bid of 2N cannot.

 

With a weak hand, and both majors, bid a major: usually 1♠ with equal so that advancer can show the second suit if appropriate.

Mike, I can be the one woefully out of step, here. ;) I used to play the way you suggest until (years ago) I read about this other treatment - so now I'm confused again.

 

Seems like there is a good case for this different treatment: if you hold 4-4 majors and partner holds a stronger double, he can jump to 3 or 4. As long as the responder holds a modicum of cards, around 7-9, two birds are killed with one stone: you get to play the 4/4 instead of the 4/3 when partner's double is in the lesser range and can still bid game when he invites. The key here is to not bid 2D with 4/4 and a real weak hand and for partner's jumps to be based on an average responding hand of around 8. If acvancer has the game forcing hand, he won't pass 2H or 2S.

 

Winston

[Gerben42]

How about the following treatment:

 

1♦ X p ?

2♦ = invite or better

3♦ = 8 - 10, 4+♥ 4+♠

 

If you play the standard way what is the difference between:

1♦ X p 2♦

p 2M p 3♦

 

and

1♦ X p 3♦

 

?

[Guest Jlall]

Agree with Mikeh. 2D creates a force until a suit has been bid and raised or we have bid game the way I play it.

 

I would play 3D over the double as very distributional, like Kxxxx Qxxxx xx x, not just a 4-4 8-10 (which I would bid 1S or 2D with depending on how good it was). The focus would be on fit, major suit honors, and minor suit controls.

 

I would play 1D X p 2D p 3D as no 4 card major, no 5 card club suit, no diamond stopper. So I guess from negative inferences 3334 with no diamond stopper.

 

I would play 1D X p 2D p 3M as "I was going to X and bid this suit." It eats up room but adds a lot of clarity.

 

I would play 1D X p 2D p 2M p 3D as ostensibly asking for a stopper since you missed a fit with a shape like 4324 or 3334, with the possibility of a slam try in the major.

[000002]

A cue-bid after a t/o-dbl USUALLY show a flexibility hand with 2nd rank honor in ♦.something like :

AXXX

KXXX

KT9

QX

 

BUT,a cuebid can't guarantee either major (example: Axx Kxx xxx AJXX), so 3♦ re-cue-bid to clarify it (ie:KQJ9 QJT9 X KQTx)

 

IMO only, good regards

[pclayton]

The only cue bid that I've seen that can be potentially weak is a jump to four diamonds here - which shows a weakish hand with 5 + - 5+ in the majors.

 

I don't know what 3♦ should mean.

 

2♦ is at least invitational values and forcing. How forcing? Probably a subsequent 2N by either pard can be passed.

[mikeh]

A cue-bid after a t/o-dbl USUALLY show a flexibility hand with 2nd rank honor in ♦.something like :

AXXX

KXXX

KT9

QX

I have never heard of this treatment: maybe more a reflection of my sheltered life than anything else :D

 

I do think that it is flawed, in that it greatly reduces the availability of the cue bid. But I have not had experience with it, so my criticism should be read accordingly

[Al_U_Card]

I used the bid recently with 6-4 in the majors and 8 hcp.......pard bid NT so I went back to 4S which made 5. 3NT wasn't as good. I have always used the bid as invitational because 3D immediately would be a GF with the majors.

 

3D by the take-out doubler, after my 2D response, I would take as a stopper ask about the opp's suit and bid 3NT with KJx in opener's suit.

[Fluffy]

I more or less play teh same, cue= GF, except having both majors with invitational, in wich case will just raise to teh 3 level.

[HeartA]

Responder cue-bid and raise of doubler's suit: invitational; Responder cue-bid and bid a new suit, game forcing.

 

Doubler cue-bid (minor) after responder's cue-bid, game forcing. usually 4-4 majors with extra strength (K or more than minimum dbl).

 

Doubler cue-bid ♥ (after pd's cuebid) shows interest in minors or NT, usually 3 ♠ only. While dbler's partner's cue-bid should show game forcing strength (opening hand).

[000002]

Doubler cue-bid ♥ (after pd's cuebid) shows interest in minors or NT, usually 3 ♠ only. While dbler's partner's cue-bid should show game forcing strength (opening hand).

could you explain more? it confuse me.

 

thanks

[civill]

Naturally,I don't think they are cuebids;Othrewise,who is capable to interpret the further cuebid?

IMO,it's just a type of freak distribution deal.

[Winstonm]

Thanks for the replies...now a question: what would be your minimum hand to cue bid 2D as advancer?

 

1D-X-P-2D?

 

Question 2:

 

If doubler re-cues in response to the cue, what is the best use for this bid?

1D-X-P-2D

P -3D?

 

I'm thinking a hand like this:

 

AQx, KQx, Qx, KJxxx.

 

Showing a NT hand with a flawed stopper.

 

Comments?

 

Winston

[000002]

2d ensure a strong invitational hand with 11total.

3d recue force a game when major be bid,and invite 5♣ only.

[civill]

1,If you and your PD bargain on non cuebid for responding to T/O double,The sequence "1D-X-P-2D" just means advancer's diamond is better and/or longer than opener's;

 

2,If advancer's 2D means a responsive double hand as to responder's bidding,then it's obvious that PD has no stopper in Diamond.

[Fluffy]

minimum is any 12 HCP or 4-4-3-2 with 10, wichever of those you think is worse :)