Matchpoints

[pigpenz]

auction:

1♠ pass 2♠ pass

3♣ pass 3♥ pass

3♠ pass you

 

matchpoints all black[hv=d=n&v=n&s=s109xhkqxxxd10xxckx]133|100|Scoring: MP[/hv]

[cherdano]

Why didn't I bid 4♠ earlier?

 

Arend

[mike777]

auction:

1♠ pass 2♠ pass

3♣ pass 3♥ pass

3♠ pass you

 

matchpoints all black[hv=d=n&v=n&s=s109xhkqxxxd10xxckx]133|100|Scoring: MP[/hv]

I would have bid 4s over 3 clubs :).

[Double !]

Not sure that I agree with the 3H bid, but, since you chose it, I interpret it as meaning "I don't know about game, I have values in hearts, does that help resolve the situation?". Opener's pass says "No". I will, therefore, abide by partner's decision. Personally, I like Kx in P's help-needed suit.

[Blofeld]

Agree with 4♠ over 3♣.

[mikeh]

4♠

 

I would not bid 3♥ here.

 

3♣ was ostensibly a game try, but might have been a cue-bid with a monster 1♠ hand interested in slam opposite the right values. My style is:

 

If I like the gametry and have an Ace I can show: cue bid

 

If I like the game try and have no Ace to cue, bid game (which I would do on this hand)

 

If I am not crazy about the gametry but have a good hand in context and can show some concentrated values below 3♠, do so. Thus is my hand were Qxx KQxxx xxx xx, I would bid 3♥

 

If I want nothing to do with game or have no values I can show below 3♠, bid 3♠

 

Note that a 3♥ bid here is ambiguous if partner lacks the ♥A: I could be cue-bidding or simply trying to get to game. Partner assumes the latter (of course, he knows the latter if looking at the A). If he is slamming, and is missing the ♥A, he will have another cue to make and we can clarify things. If he was looking for game, and dislikes values in ♥, he will bid 3♠ and I will bid game if I was cue-bidding.

[pclayton]

I was always going to game here (didn't I file my flightplan?). 3♠ seems to volley the ball back at me - sort of a Kokish reply. Hopefully pard bid 3♠ in tempo.

 

I don't see any point to 4♣ or 4♥ other than to help the defense. Surely this hand will play better in spades than hearts with my hand ruffing the club (s).

[Guest Jlall]

4S. I agree with 3H, to me it just pinpoints some values/length in this suit. Obviously I bid this in case partner is trying for slam as I'm always going to bid a game. I'm not a fan of control bidding this early in the auction as partner has no idea where I have length or values yet after 2S, and I think that is more important. I know I'm in a minority.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

before answering, could you please

say, what 3C was, a trial bid for sure,

but help suit, long sui, short suit?

 

Unless 2S showed already a constructive

I would have bid 4S over 3C.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Finch]

I can't answer without knowing what 2S showed.

 

If I play it as 7-10, constructive (in a 2/1 SF NT style) I pass 3S.

If I play it as about 5-9 with 3-card support, I bid game.

 

If 3C was a long suit try I just about agree with bidding 3H, as 4H could be best. If 3C was a short suit try 3H is completely clear.

[pigpenz]

3♣ was a natural suit game try

[Trpltrbl]

4♠, which I would have bid after 3♣. So, now that I roadmapped the defence I will still bid it, just to teach myself a lesson.

 

GBB :P

[awm]

Abstain, because I wouldn't have bid 3♥ over 3♣.

[pigpenz]

there was no agreement on 2♠ being constructive or not. For those who wondered about that.

 

Just a question about matchpoints vs imps game bidding.

[Free]

bidding doesn't make much sense imo, after 3♣ you have a 4♠ bid...

[Guest Jlall]

I suppose all of the 4S over 3C bidder's partners will know what to do with AKQxx Axx x AJxx. And if the diamonds and hearts in responder's hand were reversed, they would also know what to do.

[pigpenz]

actually i liked the 3♥ bid when it happened at the table

 

 

[hv=s=saq876hdaq87ca987]133|100|[/hv]

[cherdano]

I suppose all of the 4S over 3C bidder's partners will know what to do with AKQxx Axx x AJxx. And if the diamonds and hearts in responder's hand were reversed, they would also know what to do.

Yes, they would be annoyed that they didn't splinter 4♦ (or used a short suit game try) :(

 

Of course I see the point of 3♥ as far as slam interest goes, but are you not worried about telling them what to lead against 4♠? Admittedly, a diamond lead is likely anyway after 3♣, but there is still hope...

[pigpenz]

I dont know maybe I am missing something here, trying to be too delicate or precise.

 

almost every other auction just went 1-2-4♠'s

 

+450 85%

+420 50%

+170 20%

[Guest Jlall]

Yes, they would be annoyed that they didn't splinter 4♦ (or used a short suit game try) :(

 

Of course I see the point of 3♥ as far as slam interest goes, but are you not worried about telling them what to lead against 4♠? Admittedly, a diamond lead is likely anyway after 3♣, but there is still hope...

Splintering would make it hard to get to a club slam...but this goes back to an earlier thread where I suggested splinters in this type of auction should be made only with 1 suiters. Anyways... yes the downside of 3H is obviously you help them lead. That's a very real risk.

[Guest Jlall]

I dont know maybe I am missing something here, trying to be too delicate or precise.

Maybe, certainly 1S-2S-4S is reasonable and I like it at imps, but I think you bid it fine. Many hands that raise 2S offer little play for game (given that you don't play constructive raises which you said you didn't) and 3C gives you room to explore.

[Beto]

I agree with 3♥. Now i Bid 4♠.

 

4♠ directly over 3♣ will take a lot of bidding space if partners

intention is slam.

 

A) AKQxxx Axx x AQx

:( AKQxxx x Axx AQx

 

Wouldnt you want to hear 3♥ on hand A?

[pigpenz]

I dont know maybe I am missing something here, trying to be too delicate or precise.

Maybe, certainly 1S-2S-4S is reasonable and I like it at imps, but I think you bid it fine. Many hands that raise 2S offer little play for game (given that you don't play constructive raises which you said you didn't) and 3C gives you room to explore.

thats why i asked at matchpoints usually your gonna find a 66%-33% difference between being there and not.

 

I bid 3♣ if partner bids 3♦ i like

if partner bids 3♥ i dont!

 

at imps close your eyes and bid game

[mikeh]

I suppose all of the 4S over 3C bidder's partners will know what to do with AKQxx Axx x AJxx. And if the diamonds and hearts in responder's hand were reversed, they would also know what to do.

Of course I would know what to do ;)

 

Okay, maybe not :(

 

But you did give opener a lot of Aces in your example, Justin. Sometimes opener has slam interest without quite so many Aces:

 

AKxxxx x KQ AQJx

 

Now you no longer have 5 level safety if 3♥ might not show that Ace.

 

Yes, you may still orchestrate an auction stopping at 4♠ and, yes, this is a strained construction.

 

BTW, I would not play a jump to 4 of a new suit by opener as a splinter. I think that it is more useful as a very powerful 2-suiter, stressing good suits:

 

AKJxx x AKQxx Kx

 

1♠ 2♠ 4♦: partner looks at Aces outside of the two suits and minor honours in the 2 suits and can evaluate for slam purposes.

 

This even sometimes finds the 5=4 slam compared to the 5=3 major fit.

[Guest Jlall]

AKxxxx x KQ AQJx

 

Now you no longer have 5 level safety if 3♥ might not show that Ace.

Yeah, and 3H wouldn't excite me if I had this hand :( even if partner has the ace for his 3H bid, does he really have to have ace empty? If he has values in hearts theres not much room for the SQ and the CK. Even if I did want to shoot for the stars, I would just start cuebidding over 3H. If partner could not later bid 4H, I wouldn't think 3H was based on the ace. This is obviously just a systemic thing, and the most important thing is to have some kind of agreement on what 3H shows in this auction.