cherdano Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 Almost all agreed in BPO poll 006F that after 1♦-(4♥), 4NT is takeout for the minors. What about the auction 1♠-(4♦)-? What is the best meaning here?(And which meaning would you expect when playing with an advanced/expert pickup partner?) Assume that you play double as negative here. Arend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 Keycard...simple soul but 2 suited doesn't make sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 I'm going to check with my regular pard on this one but, I think 4N should be RKCB. We play negative doubles specifically through 4♦ so I can double (although I might not want to) with ♥ + ♣ 2 suiters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double ! Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 RKC for spades Neg X for 2-suiter. Interesting question: how would you play a bid of 5 diamonds? Exclusion RKC? Cue bid/ control? RKC and make 4NT takeout? Forum's been getting more interesting lately. Less focus on toys (systems/ conventions, and I like toys), and more focus on handling situations and judgment/ decision-making. DHL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 RKCB for spades. If I have hearts I bid them, if I have clubs I bid them, and if I have both I double. All situations covered, so 4NT must be SchwarzWald (German for Blackwood). Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 I think all auctions of type 1x (4y) 4NT should be 'schwarzwald' :rolleyes: The reason being if you want pard to bid a suit, you double for take-out. Simple, no? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigpenz Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 seems it would have to RKCB dont we play negative doubles through at least 4♦? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 I voted for "to play." Takeout doesn't make sense since we can double with that hand. There are various ways to make slam tries in spades (5♦ cuebid, double followed by a spade call, 5♠ and 5NT). But a hand that just wants to play in notrump is somewhat stuck for a bid. Take something like: ♠Qx ♥Kxx ♦AQxx ♣Kxxx. Double and you are likely to end up in either four of a major (on a 7-card fit) or 5♣. Surely doubling followed by 4NT over partners 4♥ call would be keycard in hearts... so there's no real way to get to 4NT as a contract unless bidding it now is to play. Obviously a penalty double would be great here, but you're not playing those. You could pass and hope partner balances, but I don't think it's automatic to balance over 4♦ with a minimum opening just because of holding a singleton diamond (would you balance over 4♦ on a hand like: AJTxx Qxx x AJxx? sure it could be right to balance, but it could also be a disaster...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 Hi, for me 4NT would be artificial, asking partner to bid5C, in this situation, most likely a strong one suiterin hearts or clubs, partner will break the relay with a hand better than minimum.Is this best probably not, but since 4NT means always the same for us, we will remember it. Playing opposite a unknown guy, I would assume RKCB. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 A simple rule: over 4Major, takeout. Over 4minor, keycard. So keycard here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 I voted for "to play." Takeout doesn't make sense since we can double with that hand. There are various ways to make slam tries in spades (5♦ cuebid, double followed by a spade call, 5♠ and 5NT). But a hand that just wants to play in notrump is somewhat stuck for a bid. Take something like: ♠Qx ♥Kxx ♦AQxx ♣Kxxx. Double and you are likely to end up in either four of a major (on a 7-card fit) or 5♣. Surely doubling followed by 4NT over partners 4♥ call would be keycard in hearts... so there's no real way to get to 4NT as a contract unless bidding it now is to play. Obviously a penalty double would be great here, but you're not playing those. You could pass and hope partner balances, but I don't think it's automatic to balance over 4♦ with a minimum opening just because of holding a singleton diamond (would you balance over 4♦ on a hand like: AJTxx Qxx x AJxx? sure it could be right to balance, but it could also be a disaster...) I think I'd rather have the agreement that double (sort of a thrump - maybe forump is a better term? :) )shows Adam's hand and 4N can show an extreme two suiter. I don't think I'd be too worried about playing 4N vs defending 4♦, unless its matchpoints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 Saying that you can double with hearts and clubs is a little facile. After 1S - (4D) - double, opener will pass on virtually all unexceptional hands. If you play this double as strict take-out, you are completely stuck on a boring balanced 12-count 2434 in this auction. I play 4NT in this auction is always a two-suiter, with a possible second option a slam try in partner's suit (depending on the relative ranks of the suits). So here it must have rather better/longer clubs than hearts, as you are bypassing 4H. Would you really like to double 4D on xQJxxx-AK10xxxx? p.s. There is an argument that Blackwood will come up more often than specifically a H/C two-suiter with better clubs. But our life is made much easier with the agreement that a non-jump 4NT over an overcall is never Blackwood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker_gib Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 RKCB for spades. If I have hearts I bid them, if I have clubs I bid them, and if I have both I double. All situations covered, so 4NT must be SchwarzWald (German for Blackwood). Roland Agree. Alain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted October 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 RKCB for spades. If I have hearts I bid them, if I have clubs I bid them, and if I have both I double. All situations covered, so 4NT must be SchwarzWald (German for Blackwood). Sorry for nitpicking, but Schwarzwald means Black Forest (and Blackwood Schwarzholz according to a dictionary, but I have never heard that word before). Actually, a Black Forest Cake convention could come in pretty handy sometimes -- what I could need after I have butchered a 4♥X contract where, even worse, the penalty double was completely insane (not that this would ever happen to me, of course). Btw, are you sure 5♣ shows clubs? Since 4♣ Gerber is unavailable, don't we need 5♣ for this? Or is this the king ask right away? Arend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 Btw, are you sure 5♣ shows clubs? Since 4♣ Gerber is unavailable, don't we need 5♣ for this? Or is this the king ask right away? Arend 5♣ is clubs, maybe too simple, sorry about that. How many ace asking bids do you need? I am completely lost if you can't bid clubs if you have them. Why do you think that the G-convention is #11 on my list of the 10 conventions I dislike the most? Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 Why do you think that the G-convention is #11 on my list of the 10 conventions I dislike the most? Let me guess: because there are 10 variants of the F-convention? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted October 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 Btw, are you sure 5♣ shows clubs? Since 4♣ Gerber is unavailable, don't we need 5♣ for this? Or is this the king ask right away? Arend 5♣ is clubs, maybe too simple, sorry about that. How many ace asking bids do you need? I am completely lost if you can't bid clubs if you have them. Two. 4NT as Blackwood, and 5♣ as Gerber in case I think partner has forgotten that 4NT is Blackwood. Arend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 Why do you think that the G-convention is #11 on my list of the 10 conventions I dislike the most? Let me guess: because there are 10 variants of the F-convention? Close. 7 variations of F and 3 of Capp. G is a clear #11. Well, in fact 1-11 are more or less equally bad in my opinion. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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