BPO-006C

[Gerben42]

1♠ - 2♦

3♦ = NF in Acol

 

Yikes! And what do you do with the more common hand type that wants to support ♦ and doesn't want partner to pass? Don't say I have to bid 4♦, hard to get to 3NT after 4♦...

[Blofeld]

I agree with that, Roland, but you said:

An additional point is that if you don't bid 3♦, you have lost the advantage of playing 2/1 GF where 2♦ was forcing to game.

And I was arguing with this, as the 2/1 GF also lets you splinter at a cheaper level, so you don't lose the advantage if you choose to splinter rather than bid 3♦.

[Walddk]

Yikes! And what do you do with the more common hand type that wants to support ♦ and doesn't want partner to pass? Don't say I have to bid 4♦, hard to get to 3NT after 4♦...

I didn't invent Acol, Gerben, and this is one of the reasons why I don't play that system any more. Let me stick my neck out:

 

The Brits have some great players, but they have underachieved for years. A contributing factor is surely that they are sticking to methods that are too old for comfort.

 

Roland

[Walddk]

I agree with that, Roland, but you said:

An additional point is that if you don't bid 3♦, you have lost the advantage of playing 2/1 GF where 2♦ was forcing to game.

And I was arguing with this, as the 2/1 GF also lets you splinter at a cheaper level, so you don't lose the advantage if you choose to splinter rather than bid 3♦.

I agree Blofeld, but I have 3♦ available when I play 2/1; I don't if I play Acol. And I think 3♦ is a better bid than 3♥ with the actual hand.

 

Roland

[P_Marlowe]

1♠ - 2♦

3♦ = NF in Acol

 

Yikes! And what do you do with the more common hand type that wants to support ♦ and doesn't want partner to pass? Don't say I have to bid 4♦, hard to get to 3NT after 4♦...

Hi,

 

first of all show me the hand, you are talking

about, and I will tell you what to bid, ;)

 

Even in traditional Acol 2H is forcing, this

is a fairly unknown aspect of the system,

nevertheless its true, ... :)

 

The reason: 2H could be fairly wide ranging,

because a bid on the 3 level, would still

show 19+HCP.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Walddk]

1♠ - 2♦

3♦ = NF in Acol

 

Yikes! And what do you do with the more common hand type that wants to support ♦ and doesn't want partner to pass? Don't say I have to bid 4♦, hard to get to 3NT after 4♦...

Hi,

 

first of all show me the hand, you are talking

about, and I will tell you what to bid, ;)

 

Even in traditional Acol 2H is forcing, this

is a fairly unknown aspect of the system,

nevertheless its true, ... :)

 

The reason: 2H could be fairly wide ranging,

because a bid on the 3 level, would still

show 19+HCP.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

OK then. What is your rebid in Acol with

 

AKJxx

xx

AKxx

xx

 

1♠ - 2♦

??

 

Must you jump to 4♦ and give up on 3NT? Or do you prefer to underbid with 3♦ and risk a pass when game is cold?

 

Roland

[mr1303]

If only the people in my university bridge club would read this and take it in. I've been advocating ditching Acol based methods for the last 4 years.....

[Walddk]

If only the people in my university bridge club would read this and take it in. I've been advocating ditching Acol based methods for the last 4 years.....

Maybe I can pursuade David Bird to let The Abbot and Brother Lucius switch to 5-card majors, but I doubt it. If the inhabitants of Great Britain and Northern Ireland really prefer to keep living in sin, I am not going to stop them :rolleyes:

 

One step at a time, so perhaps start with 4½-card majors?

 

Roland

[P_Marlowe]

1♠ - 2♦

3♦ = NF in Acol

 

Yikes! And what do you do with the more common hand type that wants to support ♦ and doesn't want partner to pass? Don't say I have to bid 4♦, hard to get to 3NT after 4♦...

Hi,

 

first of all show me the hand, you are talking

about, and I will tell you what to bid, :rolleyes:

 

Even in traditional Acol 2H is forcing, this

is a fairly unknown aspect of the system,

nevertheless its true, ... :)

 

The reason: 2H could be fairly wide ranging,

because a bid on the 3 level, would still

show 19+HCP.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

OK then. What is your rebid in Acol with

 

AKJxx

xx

AKxx

xx

 

1♠ - 2♦

??

 

Must you jump to 4♦ and give up on 3NT? Or do you prefer to underbid with 3♦ and risk a pass when game is cold?

 

Roland

Hi Roland,

 

If you do not want to bid 3D, another possible

solution would be 2NT, which shows 15-16HCP,

and forces to partnership to game.

 

It is not perfect, but on the other hand, it would

be the book bid, with

 

AKJxx

xxx

AKx

xx

 

and there is not much difference between this hand

and the hand you gave.

 

And if you belong tro the school, wo opens

 

AKJx

xxx

AKxx

xx

 

with 1S, you 2NT did not even deny 4 card support for

diamond.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

 

PS: Acol does not really shine, when it comes to slam

bidding, but that is the price you pay, to get in more

easily as opener / as reponder with option of getting out

easily.

[Guest Jlall]

It is not perfect, but on the other hand, it would

be the book bid, with

 

AKJxx

xxx

AKx

xx

I have not read that book.

[Walddk]

If you do not want to bid 3D, another possible

solution would be 2NT, which shows 15-16HCP,

and forces to partnership to game.

 

It is not perfect, but on the other hand, it would

be the book bid, with

 

AKJxx

xxx

AKx

xx

 

and there is not much difference between this hand

and the hand you gave.

 

And if you belong tro the school, wo opens

 

AKJx

xxx

AKxx

xx

 

with 1S, you 2NT did not even deny 4 card support for

diamond.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

 

PS: Acol does not really shine, when it comes to slam

bidding, but that is the price you pay, to get in more

easily as opener / as reponder with option of getting out

easily.

Of course I don't want to rebid 2NT. I want to describe my hand, not misdescribe it. Like it or not, you have a big advantage on hands like these if you play 2/1. Now you have an easy 3♦ without risking a pass.

 

PS: Acol does not really shine

 

was well said.

 

Roland

[han]

It is not perfect, but on the other hand, it would

be the book bid, with

 

AKJxx

xxx

AKx

xx

I have not read that book.

lol!

[P_Marlowe]

<snip>

Like it or not, you have a big advantage on hands like these

if you play 2/1. Now you have an easy 3♦ without risking a pass.

 

PS: Acol does not really shine

 

was well said.

 

Roland

Hi,

 

2/1 is better when it comes to slam bidding,

but at least it is not as bad, as some claimed

in this thread.

 

Personally I play a system similar to 2/1

and I could bid 3D without fear, that partner

passes.

 

I changed the system, because my current

partner did not play Acol.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[MickyB]

It is not perfect, but on the other hand, it would

be the book bid, with

 

AKJxx

xxx

AKx

xx

I have not read that book.

I'll buy you a copy for Christmas.

 

2/1 GF is certainly better in slam auctions, but it isn't great at deciding between game and part-score after 1M:1NT. Frances plays 2/1s as fairly light (despite playing strong NT+5 card majors) then uses some interesting system to sort it out including forcing and NF raises. I'm not terribly keen on Acol but play it in my two main partnerships, after a 2/1 response a jump shift shows a splinter and a 3NT rebid shows a flattish (usually 5422) GF raise which works ok. I agree that playing 1S:2C, 2D as NF is slightly rubbish, and I wish we didn't teach it to people at uni ;)

[JLOGIC]

I do not understand this at all. Why is 3D better than 3H? 3H shows what 3D does as well as pinpointing our stiff. I would always bid 3H, surprised I got rocked so hard in the vote, I will try to discuss this hand with fred so I can become enlightened.