What happend in this hand?

[omeroj]

[hv=d=w&v=b&s=skqj9h103d8762c643]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

WEST open 1♠ x 4♠...and you? what do u bid on 4 ♠?

 

 

Omero

[Guest Jlall]

pass. Sadly, X is not penalty, it shows about 10 working points. I have 0 working points, so that's no good. If I X, since pard is surely void, he will likely bid 4N or 5 of something. Passing and going plus is not a terrible thing, and sometimes he'll reopen with a X himself.

[Trpltrbl]

Pass I guess, double would be for TO concentrating on the minors.

I will pass if pd doubles again, but otherwise I will just go for the plus.

 

GBB :)

[pbleighton]

Double for penalties. Sometimes it's nice to have simple agreements :)

 

"Pass I guess, double would be for TO concentrating on the minors."

 

If double is the minors, what is 4NT?

 

Peter

[luke warm]

i passed also, and also because x isn't penalty... my real worry is that partner bids 4nt next time... then i'll have to bid 5D i guess... but he *might* double again.. if he passes, at least we should go positive

 

wb mike

[Guest Jlall]

X is just values. Sometimes you have a hand such as xx Kxxx Axxx QJx where you must X to say "pard it's our hand and I have some working values." It doesn't really concentrate on any suits, and pard will usually pass unless he has some extra shape. With a void he will almost always pull.

[omeroj]

Now 4 votes for dbl and 4 for pass...i see that isn't a simple bid:)))

 

Omero

[mikeh]

Pass

 

Double would show what Kokish (and others) call 'transferable values': that is: cards that are useful both offensively and defensively: aka 'cards'.

 

Partner is permitted to pull such a double, and we definitely cannot stand that :)

 

So Pass, in tempo if at all possible. You may get a chance to pass again ;)

 

Why play this style?

 

Because experience (of those who collectively advocate this style) suggests that the pure penalty double is a rare creature compared to the ability to announce the 'cards' type of double. As an example, I cannot ever remember holding this kind of ♠ suit on this auction. But I have often held something like xxx KQx Axxx Qxx or a hand such as Justin posted:

 

On this hand, I need to announce ownership, yet cannot afford to commit to the 5-level in a suit.

 

 

Partner will usually pass but is permitted to bid. In this way it is similar to auctions such as (4♠) dble (P) ? 4th chair usually passes, even tho (for most) the double was not penalty. 4th chair only bids if he thinks that he can handle a 5-level, or higher, spot.

[pclayton]

I play responsive doubles through 7♥, so thats out.

 

If I was playing with my Aunt, then I'd double.

 

If playing with one of my regular pards I would pass in tempo and hope for a reopening double. I'm probably not getting one since pard is void and won't double for fear of a leave-in. I'm expecting 4N which I will pull to 5♦ (although passing is tempting).

[Elianna]

Adam insists on only playing responsive doubles through 2♠, so we have a clear double (it is penalty) here. yeay! :lol:

[inquiry]

Pass... double is for takeout.

[HeartA]

Double for penalties. Sometimes it's nice to have simple agreements :lol:

 

"Pass I guess, double would be for TO concentrating on the minors."

 

If double is the minors, what is 4NT?

 

Peter

Agree with Peter.

[omeroj]

eheh again 8-8 who will win?

 

The double?

Or the pass?

 

Make your vote pls:)

 

Omero

[Finch]

It's not a question of who will "win". It's simply a question of what you & your partner have agreed the double means.

 

If I were playing with someone I didn't know, I would have to pass, because making a penalty double and having it interpreted as take-out will be very expensive here.

[Chamaco]

Do you folks play 4NT as generic 2 suited takeout here ?

[helene_t]

Do you folks play 4NT as generic 2 suited takeout here ?

Yes.

 

Partner is likely to be void so he will pull a double. So I pass.

[Trpltrbl]

wb mike

TY :D It's going to be fun on the forums again.

 

GBB :blink:

[Fluffy]

Pass of course :blink:

[Guest Jlall]

Do you folks play 4NT as generic 2 suited takeout here ?

I do.

[Gerben42]

Pass on this hand, 4NT as a generic 2-suiter. Why isn't this unanimous?

[mikeh]

Do you folks play 4NT as generic 2 suited takeout here ?

It is not clear to me whether this is a generic 2-suiter or a 3 suiter: but it is takeout.

 

void Qxxx AJxx Qxxxx I am not doubling (see my earlier post: this is not a hand with transferable values) and I am not passing, so 4N for me.

 

However, frequency-wise, 4N will far more often be a 2-suiter and partner bids accordingly.

[Elianna]

Pass on this hand, 4NT as a generic 2-suiter. Why isn't this unanimous?

Because some of us play double is penalty. :rolleyes:

[omeroj]

I bidded double, i think that double could be penalty... if i have minours could bid 4 nt...if i have the hearts could bid 5♥ because when the bid go 1♠ x 4♠ my p have sure 4 more ♥....

 

Then i will post the hand of my p....and you will see his hand and if is right to bid x or you prefer other bid:)

 

Tks for votes

 

Omero

[mikeh]

Showing partner's hand makes no difference to the answer to your post. The correct answer depends only upon what double means, not what partner holds. It is poor practice to change the meaning of your bid according to what you hold: it is just as futile, and misguided, to change the meaning of your bid according to what partner held.

 

If double is transferable values or takeout (not quite the same thing) then you cannot and should not double here, no matter what partner holds.

 

If double is pure penalty, then you have to double, no matter what partner holds.

[omeroj]

Showing partner's hand makes no difference to the answer to your post. The correct answer depends only upon what double means, not what partner holds. It is poor practice to change the meaning of your bid according to what you hold: it is just as futile, and misguided, to change the meaning of your bid according to what partner held.

 

If double is transferable values or takeout (not quite the same thing) then you cannot and should not double here, no matter what partner holds.

 

If double is pure penalty, then you have to double, no matter what partner holds

Of course mikeh, for me the double is penalty...i told only that is nice to see too the hand of my p and how you all could bid on 1♠ by opp

 

Regards

 

Omero