Free Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 One of those hands from competition:[hv=d=s&v=n&s=sakqtxhjxdakt9xxc]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]Bidding went:1♦ - 1♥ - Dbl - 2♥3♥ - Pass* - 3♠ - Pass4♣! - Pass - 5♣ - Pass???(*) pass = Lead my suit(!) 4♣ = controlWe play with screens, so you don't know if your partner is on the same track - Would you have started with 1♦ as well? (Don't start about MisIry, it's too easy to find the right contract with that anyway)- Do you agree with 3♥ followed by 4♣ to find out about a ♥ control? Or what alternative would you use?- What do you think about 5♣?- What do you bid now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr1303 Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 Partner might think you have a big minor 2 suiter here, I'm not convinced that you've agreed spades. Therein lies the difficulty. Anyway, I'm bidding 5S here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheoKole Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 5 ♠ Theo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chamaco Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 One of those hands from competition: Dealer: South Vul: None Scoring: IMP ♠ AKQTx ♥ Jx ♦ AKT9xx ♣ [space] Bidding went:1♦ - 1♥ - Dbl - 2♥3♥ - Pass* - 3♠ - Pass4♣! - Pass - 5♣ - Pass???(*) pass = Lead my suit(!) 4♣ = controlWe play with screens, so you don't know if your partner is on the same track - Would you have started with 1♦ as well? (Don't start about MisIry, it's too easy to find the right contract with that anyway)- Do you agree with 3♥ followed by 4♣ to find out about a ♥ control? Or what alternative would you use?- What do you think about 5♣?- What do you bid now? The 3♥ bid led to trouble.I know it's right on values, but it makes difficult for responder tounderstand opener's hand-type (from the actual bidding it would seem opener has a strong minor 2suiter). I would have bid 3♠, which might be an underbid BUT I think it should be GF , showing a natural reverse that forces to game opposite responder's neg X. 3 spades has the advantage to allow finding a strain early on. If pard bids 4 spades, then we can use exclusion BW to find if we belong in game/small/grand slam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 I'm on a guess, and worse, a misunderstanding might be lurking. I'll just bid the fit now: 5♠. As for the rest, I would have opened 2♣ but opening 1♦ is ok too. I would have bid differently the 3rd round, though: 1♦..(1♥)..dbl..(2♥)3♥....(p)....3♠...(p)5♠ 5♠ now seems clear: no heart control, asking pard to:- Pass without heart control- Bid 6♠ with 2nd round heart control- Bid 6♥ (or 7♠) with 1st round control Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 Agree with Nuno. I would open always 1♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blofeld Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 Yes, I open 1♦. I like whereagle's auction with the jump to 5♠ asking for a ♥ control. I'm worried that 5♣ is an attempt to play opposite my big minor two-suiter, but if it isn't then I suppose it shows a black two-suiter with slam interest. But I'll just bid 5♠ now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfgauss Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 I'm on a guess, and worse, a misunderstanding might be lurking. I'll just bid the fit now: 5♠. As for the rest, I would have opened 2♣ but opening 1♦ is ok too. I would have bid differently the 3rd round, though: 1♦..(1♥)..dbl..(2♥)3♥....(p)....3♠...(p)5♠ 5♠ now seems clear: no heart control, asking pard to:- Pass without heart control- Bid 6♠ with 2nd round heart control- Bid 6♥ (or 7♠) with 1st round control This is a nice thought. How is this different from a 1♦ 1♥ X 2♥5♠ auction? Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbleighton Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 - Would you have started with 1D as well? (Don't start about MisIry, it's too easy to find the right contract with that anyway) No, I start with 1S, and if I get a 1NT response, jump to 3D, and rebid 4D over a 3NT rebid. I don't think 1D is bad, however. - Do you agree with 3♥ followed by 4♣ to find out about a ♥ control? Or what alternative would you use? No, I would have rebid 3S.This shows a huge hand, and is GF. If pd signs off in 4S, you can respect that. - What do you think about 5♣? OK in this auction. - What do you bid now? 5S. 4C shows the CK and denies a heart control. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 - Do you agree with 3♥ followed by 4♣ to find out about a ♥ control? Or what alternative would you use? No, I would have rebid 3S.This shows a huge hand, and is GF. If pd signs off in 4S, you can respect that. Suppose you had opened 1D, your partner had responded 1S and you jumped to 3S. That would be natural, invitational, non-forcing. Why is 3S in this auction any different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 - Do you agree with 3♥ followed by 4♣ to find out about a ♥ control? Or what alternative would you use? No, I would have rebid 3S.This shows a huge hand, and is GF. If pd signs off in 4S, you can respect that. Suppose you had opened 1D, your partner had responded 1S and you jumped to 3S. That would be natural, invitational, non-forcing. Why is 3S in this auction any different? I agree. I can't imagine that 2♠ in this position shows extras, it seems mandatory to compete with 4 spades. So certainly 3♠ has to be available as showing extras, invitational. I think I would settle for the underbid of 4♠ at this point, although a psychic 4♥ splinter does have some appeal. Arend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 Agree with Frances that 3♠ here is not forcing. I'd strongly consider opening this hand with 2♣. This is awkward if the opponents bid over 2♣, but frequently they don't. I'd plan to rebid 3♦ and then bid 4♠ next. Opening 1♠ is also fine. I like a 5♠ call at the second turn, asking partner to bid slam with a heart control. This immediately clarifies the situation. After the 3♥ call and 4♣ bid, partner may think we have clubs, or that we're issueing a slam try in diamonds. In fact my interpretation of the auction would be: 3♥ = "I have a really good hand, do you have a heart stopper?"3♠ = "No, I don't have a heart stopper."4♣ = "Okay, maybe we should play in clubs."5♣ = "Your club bid is probably game forcing, and I have some good clubs anyway." I'd bid 5♦ here because it is more likely to end the auction. If partner is actually on the same page with my actions, this will get us to the right spot. If partner thinks something like what I wrote above, 5♦ is more likely to end the auction than 5♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 One of those hands from competition:[hv=d=s&v=n&s=sakqtxhjxdakt9xxc]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]Bidding went:1♦ - 1♥ - Dbl - 2♥3♥ - Pass* - 3♠ - Pass4♣! - Pass - 5♣ - Pass???(*) pass = Lead my suit(!) 4♣ = controlWe play with screens, so you don't know if your partner is on the same track - Would you have started with 1♦ as well? (Don't start about MisIry, it's too easy to find the right contract with that anyway)- Do you agree with 3♥ followed by 4♣ to find out about a ♥ control? Or what alternative would you use?- What do you think about 5♣?- What do you bid now? 1) Agree with 1D2) 5S not 3H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blofeld Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 Yes of course 5♠ at second turn is better. Not quite sure why I missed that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 Definitely agree with 1D opener. I cannot think of an auction that would come up where you would be placed awkwardly. 2C will be awkward even if the opps never bid! Frequently you will never have distinguished a 6-5 hand from a 6-4 hand. In fact you'd need the auction to come up 2C p 2D p 3D p 3H or 2C p 3C p 3D p 3H p (and is it clear spade bids are natural here? probably but will partner also think that?) for you to be able to show 6-5. After 2H you have a textbook 5S bid. If partner bids 6H, bid a grand (and hope he doesn't have the death holding of xxx in diamonds). If partner bids 5N or 6S then play 6S. If he has no control he'd pass. The 3H bid on this hand is ambiguous. It just creates a game force and could be based on: 1 suited diamond hand needing a stopper, a strong minor suit 2 suiter, spade support. I think 18-19 bal with no stopper should X 2H. When you bid 4C you are indicating hand 2. 5C says ok, lets play 5C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 Just when I finished a post in which I disagreed with Justin, here comes one where I agree with (almost) everything he wrote. Does the sequence so far include the hand type of a big minor two suiter, and if so, have we said anything about ♥? 1♦ 1♥ x 2♥ 4♣ For me that would be forcing, showing a big minor 2-suiter (I play forms of good/bad or bad/good, and have double as big balanced hand), so our slow route should show a different hand. Maybe an even bigger hand? Maybe a ♥ control? However, I would certainly take the given sequence as a minor 2-suiter. (I think 5♠ was 100% clear). For those who open 1♠, what are you afraid of? Anytime I see players distort shape on big hands, I suspect fear setting in. Fear that their partner may not understand a natural, descriptive sequence, or fear that they themselves may get lost in the subtleties of the auction. I suspect that my position is well known by now: decribe your hand... distort only when the distortion is the lesser of various evils. There cannot possibly be a sequence in which you are disadvantaged by opening 1♦, compared to 1♠. And consider partner with 3=3 in your suits or 2=2. You would far rather play slam in the longer fit, since you may be able to pick up a bad split in ♠ when playing ♦, but not vice versa. Partner will NEVER prefer ♦ to ♠, with such holdings, if you open 1♠ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 1♦ 1♥ x 2♥ 4♣ For me that would be forcing, showing a big minor 2-suiter I agree, but it bypasses 3N. I think going through 3H probably means the minor 2 suiter was searching for 3N and is thus less distributional. KxxxAKQxxKQJx would be consistent with this auction (to me). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 How is this different from a 1♦ 1♥ X 2♥5♠ auction? It shouldn't be different. But I'd be weary to produce such a wierd jump auction at table because pard might be on a different wavelenght :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 5!S, bid slam with ♥heart control. Automatic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blofeld Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 There cannot possibly be a sequence in which you are disadvantaged by opening 1♦, compared to 1♠.What about 1♦ (3♣) Pass (5♣) ? But ok, that's pretty contrived, even then I'm not absolutely certain that I'd prefer to have opened 1♠ (though I lean towards it ; also what if it's at 6♣ when it gets back to you?), and whenever they preempt in ♥s instead you can be glad you opened 1♦. Opening 1♠ never really occurred to me, but I thought I'd play devil's advocate on this one anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 Definitely agree with 1D opener. I cannot think of an auction that would come up where you would be placed awkwardly.I agree, because in the bad auction you won't be placed any more at all:1♦-P-P-P :) Ok, very unlikely that noone can find a 1♥ bid -- and even so, you might make 1♦, and you might not make 4♠. Definitely agree with 1♦, but couldn't resist the joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 lol true, 1D float didn't even occur to me :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 lol true, 1D float didn't even occur to me :) Yet another reason to Free fears the convention he will not allow to be mentioned in this thread... but then who likes easy bridge?... :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfgauss Posted October 3, 2005 Report Share Posted October 3, 2005 How is this different from a 1♦ 1♥ X 2♥5♠ auction? It shouldn't be different. But I'd be weary to produce such a wierd jump auction at table because pard might be on a different wavelenght :)I was actually serious. Your sequence of 1♦ 1♥ X 2♥3♥ P 3♠ P5♠ should (in a perfect world) suggest something slightly different. (This is in a perfect world because then you'd never start with a cuebid and then realize you had a perfect bid the round before.) For example, maybe it's looking for a heart control plus something slightly extra and so partner's allowed to pass with a heart control and no help in either spades or diamonds. (This is all assuming that you think 3♠ is just a nothing bid.) I'm reminded of a hand in Allan Falk's Spingold Challenge (skip this paragraph if you're just about to start this book or want to read it soon with no spoilers, I guess). Your partner tells you in the introduction "I don't play frivolous cards, and all my bids mean something" and so, when there's a hand in which partner bids Grand Slam Force and but had a chance to bid it a round earlier with the same info (i.e. you just rebid your suit in a "nothing bid" sort of situation), you're supposed to realize that he's looking for a slightly better suit than just 2 of the top 3 honors. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted October 3, 2005 Report Share Posted October 3, 2005 5S. Time to clarify intentions and highlight the heart suit. Winston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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