Overcall ?

[joker_gib]

[hv=d=w&v=n&s=saqt8hada652ckt42]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

(Pass) - Pass - (1♦) - ?

[mr1303]

1NT for me. If partner really wants to play in hearts, I have the A, which might be as good as xx. 1S is also an option, but I prefer not to overcall 4 card suits if I have a reasonable alternative.

 

Double is out as I don't have enough to rebid 1NT if partner bids 1H

[Chamaco]

Playing natural 1NT overcalls, I'll settle for 1NT.

I often treat 4441 with stiff honor as a balanced hand.

 

Overcalling 1S can work occasionally but it has 2 flaws:

- steals 1 card

- underbids the strength of the hand

 

On the other hand I would double only if I am playing Power Doubles or if I am playing 1NT Raptor (and this is one of the cases where I'd regret playing Raptor..)

[whereagles]

2 choices:

 

1. Overcall 1NT

2. Double. If pard bids spades, great. If he bids hearts, you steal a point and bid an "18"-19 1NT.

 

Both are good ways to bid the hand. Which to choose depends on the vibes at table.

[Walddk]

- underbids the strength of the hand

I overcall 1NT, but I can't see why 1♠ would underbid the strength of the hand. A simple overcall shows something like 8-17 hcp, and if partner can't move over 1♠, we are unlikely to have missed anything. One is allowed to have a maximum on occasions.

 

Overcalls on a 4-card suit are rare exceptions for me, and I wouldn't do it here. Partner should expect 5+ after an overcall.

 

Roland

[pbleighton]

1NT, but 1S is OK. I wouldn't double. If pd responds 2H as expected, he wil expect 5 cards for 2S, and there won't be enough room to show him otherwise.

 

Peter

[Free]

When not playing my Power Doubles, I'd bid 1NT...

[Guest Jlall]

Odd man out... I'll go with 1S and attempt to argue its merits.

 

1N positionally seems poor. My diamond spots are horrid and on a diamond lead if partner has Qx, Jxx, etc we will be poorly placed to make a 3N contract. If 3N makes, partner will likely need some diamond help plus some values, or good clubs (like AQxxx) in which case 1S puts us in better position to rightside the contract. He may either bid 1N or cue and then later when I bid something like 3D, try 3N.

 

My spade suit is very good, and I think a 4-3 fit may play quite well, especially opposite short diamonds. We may be able to ruff diamonds in dummy and it would be hard to tap the long hand since we control every suit. Scrambling home 10 tricks in spades will often be easier than making 9 in 3N.

 

If partner has a hand with 4 spades and 5 or 6 points with a bid of shape, 4S will probably be a favorite but 1N will miss it (since partner will pass) whereas 1S will get us there.

 

Instead of playing a 5-1 heart fit by overcalling 1N, we can get to the 4-1 spade fit by overcalling 1S :(

[Fluffy]

1♠, would bid 1NT if the stopper was better.

[pclayton]

1♠ will probably play better but 1N is a better description.

 

Positionally, it will only matter if pard has any 1/2 stopper or short tenace. Not really likely, but possible.

 

I don't expect pard to make a move over 1♠ with an 8 count and 5 so-so hearts.

 

Another great case for power doubles.

[hrothgar]

I consider this a clear cut 1♠ bid.

 

1NT is a terrible misrepresentation of this hand.

 

1. The strength is completely wrong. This hand evaluates 19.45 on the K+R count.

2. The hand's strength is predominantly Aces and Kings which suggests a suit contract. Equivalently, the lack of slow tricks recommends against NT.

3. There also the shape. While I have no problem opening 1NT on off shape hands, its not something that I strive to do.

 

If we rule out 1NT, this leaves us with a choice between double and 1♠.

 

Doubling (intending to rebid NT when partner bid Hearts is an option). If partner bids lots of Hearts, our Ace will be a welcome filler. Still, the double could leave us very poorly positioned if partner jumped to 2♥ on a 4 card suit.

 

A somewhat heavy 1♠ overcall rates to work best...

[inquiry]

1♠, process of elimination. I would not overcall 1NT, and not because I have a singleton ♥, but because my ♦ spots are useless. If we belong in Notrump, it is from partners side with opener on lead. The four card spade suit does not worry me.

[Chamaco]

A question to the 1S bidders(no sarcasm here, just curiosity to hear a different hand evaluation).

 

I agree that the diamond suit has no intermediates and Axxx might suggest a suit contract.

 

Would you bid anyways 1S instead of 1NT if you held

AQT8-xx-A652-AKT

 

instead of the original hand posted:

AQT8-A-A652-KT42

 

Here the quality of the stopper is the same (so the same considerations apply: positionality, empty suit to the Ace, if we belong in NT I want pard to bid it), so I wonder whether you would bid 1NT or 1S.

In my view the two hands should be bid with the same strategy(whichever you have chosen), but I'd like opinions.

[mikestar]

1♠ -- the hand screams suit contract and the four card suit is excellent.

[pclayton]

(snip)

 

1NT is a terrible misrepresentation of this hand.

 

1. The strength is completely wrong. This hand evaluates 19.45 on the K+R count.

 

(more snippage)

K and R is a static evaluation and does not contemplate a 1♦ opening on your right. The hand isn't worth a 19 count.

 

Hard to see how a 1♠ can be a better characterazation than 1N, but, OK.

 

I'm guessing Jeff Rubens would double with this hand and rebid spades over 1♥. Not a bad approach if it fits your methods.

[Guest Jlall]

Would you bid anyways 1S instead of 1NT if you held

AQT8-xx-A652-AKT2

With this hand I would bid 1N (but still hate my diamond spots, however now its just too good of a description).

 

I see some differences in these 2 hands.

 

1) Playability in a suit contract is better with the 4144 hand. If a cross ruff is needed, that is much easier to handle with the stiff A hand. Also, it's easier to get tapped in a 4-3 fit with xx in hearts than stiff A as you have no control.

 

2) The relative hand strength if partner has 4 spades is MUCH stronger with the 4144 hand. This is easy to see why, so I'm not as worried about missing a spade game by overcalling 1N.

 

3) I do not agree with the premise that A is as good as xx if we are going to declare hearts. the NUMBER of trumps still matters when partner would have a weak 5 card suit (or a random 5 card suit). It also matters when partner could have a random 6 card suit, though not as much. This is mainly for trump control reasons. I agree that in an auction like 1S p 1N p 3S, stiff ace is better than xx. This is because partner will have a good 6 card suit, at least, and your ace probably solidifies the suit. These cases to me are different.

[mikeh]

1♠. Give me the ♦10 and 1N is more attractive. However, even then, 1♠ would probably get my vote....I do not like 4441 hands for notrump.

 

Bear in mind that many players bid 4 card majors in 3rd seat, so the 1♦ opening bid is probably on a real suit. Thus A222 is not going to grow into a second stopper.

 

1♠ is certainly not an underbid in my style: I have no problem with very heavy overcalls.

 

The most likely game is in ♠. 1♠ maximizes the chances of getting there. 1N maximizes the chances of playing in notrump (ugh) or ♥ (ugh-er).

 

Admittedly, 1♠ maximizes the chances of violating Burn's Law of Total Trumps, but we are dealing with a flawed hand, so all calls have downsides. For me, 1♠ has more upside and less downside than any other available call.

[hrothgar]

>K and R is a static evaluation and does not contemplate a 1♦ opening on

>your right. The hand isn't worth a 19 count.

 

Somewhat confused by this statement.

The Spades and the Clubs are worth MORE since they are sitting over opener...

 

>I'm guessing Jeff Rubens would double with this hand and rebid spades

>over 1♥. Not a bad approach if it fits your methods.

 

I don't know what methods Rubens plays, however, most players use double followed by a new suit to show a very strong hand with a self sufficient suit. If you chose to double, I think that you need to plan to rebid NT...

[han]

I voted 1S, am surprised to see so many 1NT votes. If we don't overcall 1S on a 17-count with AQ10x and 4144 shape, do we ever?

[pclayton]

>K and R is a static evaluation and does not contemplate a 1♦ opening on

>your right. The hand isn't worth a 19 count.

 

Somewhat confused by this statement.

The Spades and the Clubs are worth MORE since they are sitting over opener...

 

>I'm guessing Jeff Rubens would double with this hand and rebid spades

>over 1♥. Not a bad approach if it fits your methods.

 

I don't know what methods Rubens plays, however, most players use double followed by a new suit to show a very strong hand with a self sufficient suit. If you chose to double, I think that you need to plan to rebid NT...

The black suit tenaces are great once you can reach dummy. I'm not holding my breath.

 

There have been similar problems in MSC when Rubens moderated where he has suggested such an approach. The hand I'm referring to actually held a 4 card minor as I recall.

 

Doubling and then rebidding 1N is a real overbid on this hand.

 

Bear in mind, I don't loathe a 1♠ overcall.

[Al_U_Card]

Left field question; how many points does pard have? If you bid 1NT will you play it there when he has 3424 and 0-5 hcp? Do you want to? While he may be likely to hold 4 H, he is quite likely to hold 4 cards in a black suit and you have 2 of them. I would bid 1S at the table, but if 2D showed the blacks (I know that 4-4 is crappy for a Michael's type bid.) wouldn't it get you to the best contract (even if it was 3C)?

[Al_U_Card]

Would you bid anyways 1S instead of 1NT if you held

AQT8-xx-A652-AKT2

With this hand I would bid 1N (but still hate my diamond spots, however now its just too good of a description).

 

I see some differences in these 2 hands.

The trick taking potential of the 14th card is worth its weight in procedural penalties..... ;)

 

Since the extra H came from the C suit (I imagine, based on the nature of the post.) This hand must be a 1 NT overcall as it will bid and play just like a normal 1NT opener. (With the knowledge of the 1D bid of course adding to the fun....lol)

[Guest Jlall]

good point, assumed he meant 1 less diamond ;))

[jdeegan]

:D One spade with one NT a close second. Lack of diamond spots the deciding factor for me.

[joker_gib]

1♠ was my bid at the table.

 

Here is the full hand :

 

[hv=d=w&v=n&n=s3hqt963dt987cj76&w=skj752hj8754dcq53&e=s964hk2dkqj43ca98&s=saqt8hada652ckt42]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

And it went :

 

(P) - P - (1♦) - 1♠

(X) - P - (2♦) - P

(2♥) - P - (P) - P

 

for 2 down and 100 in the good column.

 

Our teammates played 2♠-1 and we won 2 imps.

 

Not the most exciting hand of the match of course but we had a big discussion on that bid and I was wondering what you, guys, would do with this hand.

 

Tx all for the replies. :D

 

Alain