Sacrifice or pass?

[whereagles]

Matchpoints, intermediate field and opponents (though experienced)

 

NV vs V you hold:

 

♠ AT9x

♥ x

♦ 7xxx

♣ KJ9x

 

RHO you LHO pard

1NT..pass...2♣...2♦

2♥.....3♦.....4♥..pass

pass...??

 

4♥ was bid in a confident manner. Do you sacrifice or pass?

[mr1303]

I'm going to pass. I have some reasonable defence, and partner may have a trick or 2 outside of diamonds. I don't like to sacrifice just because I'm at favourable vulnerability.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

Pass.

 

You could have made it harder

for them, bidding 4D instead of 3D.

 

Also you should have decided, what

do at the time you made the 3D bid.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Walddk]

No, I fancy my chances on defence with that hand. I have both black suits well guarded, and hearts could easily break 4-1 since responder didn't transfer. I know that opener may have 5 of them occasionally (if that is allowed in your methods).

 

"It's no sacrifice, at all", as Elton John so rightly points out in one of his best songs. "Sacrifice" is the title in case some of you didn't know. Maybe he plays bridge too.

 

Roland

[Chamaco]

Hi,

 

Pass.

 

You could have made it harder

for them, bidding 4D instead of 3D.

 

Also you should have decided, what

do at the time you made the 3D bid.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

Ditto.

 

At previous bidding round, bid directly the number of diamonds you are wiling to go up to, and then let pard decide, passing throughout.

[joker_gib]

PASS not sure they are making as I have good cards in defence and maybe ♥ don't break

 

Alain

[Fluffy]

I never sacrificee when partner is likelly to have 4 trumps.

[Guest Jlall]

pass, prospects on defense look too good. besides, the field won't be sacrificing, I will just try to win this board by defending a trick better.

[Jurek S]

Double! Let your partner go wrong. It sould promiss 2-2,5 def trick outside ♦ so he will pass with 1,75 like ♦A and ♥J9xx, othewise he'll bid 5♦.

And, after you can always "adjust" your post-mortem.

[Guest Jlall]

would think it promised 4 tricks outside of diamonds and partner would never bid :rolleyes: lol

[Al_U_Card]

Seems pretty clear here that the 2C bidder has a void in D and a major 2 suiter with moderate (7-9 hcp) values. He feels (rightly so after the auction) that pard is unlikely to have wasted values in D. Pard is broke with 7 diamonds to the A or KQ (hopefully).

 

Looks like 4H is a make so I can't fault North for hoping to buy the hand, but once they bid game (confidently because that was his intention all along if he found a major fit) I like the sac....(sorry Roland :rolleyes: )

[Blofeld]

Seems pretty clear here that the 2C bidder has a void in D and a major 2 suiter with moderate (7-9 hcp) values.

Erm ... why?

 

I don't know enough about this auction to bid any higher. If I'd wanted to, I would have done it last round.

[pclayton]

No, I fancy my chances on defence with that hand. I have both black suits well guarded, and hearts could easily break 4-1 since responder didn't transfer. I know that opener may have 5 of them occasionally (if that is allowed in your methods).

 

"It's no sacrifice, at all", as Elton John so rightly points out in one of his best songs. "Sacrifice" is the title in case some of you didn't know. Maybe he plays bridge too.

 

Roland

I pulled the lines from Sacrifice to jog my memory.

 

"Some things look better - just passing through"

 

Aptly describes this hand. Pass!

[Jurek S]

would think it promised 4 tricks outside of diamonds and partner would never bid :) lol

That's why post-mortem is so important :( , How can I have 4 tricks in ♣ and ♠ with maximum of 9-10 HP, look at your KQJ in ♦, you know about my ♥ shortness. So it was a "do something" double partner :rolleyes:

[mikeh]

My guess is that the dummy will be something like 4=5=1=3, since partner rates to hold 6♦. So I am not counting on partner for 4 trump.

 

However, neither am I sacrificing.

 

I have good defensive values and there is no rule that says partner cannot contribute something useful.

 

Furthermore, bidding 3♦ and then saving is a violation of a pretty basic rule of competitive bidding. Your 3♦ bid applied no pressure to the opps, so that they have had an opportunity to define their hands: dummy's 4♥ bid was not under pressure.

 

Thus bidding 5♦ now allows them to make an informed decision.

 

BTW, I am not advocating a 4♦ raise earlier. I feel that bidding 4 of a minor in an auction is which the opps may be forced to stretch to bid a major suit game is generally a losing proposition. You force them to guess to bid a game and then you feel pressured to save?

 

4minor should send a specific message to partner: I like it to say that I am interested in saving but do not have the shape I'd need to bid 5m myself: it allows partner to make the decision based on his hand.

 

So, for me, I would either bid as shown or jump to 5♦ over 2♥. With this much defence, I raise to 3♦. Reverse my pointed suits: ♠xxxx ♦Axxx and I'd bid 5♦ immediately (who knows, it might even make :P )

[Walddk]

And its no sacrifice

Just a simple word

Its two hearts living

In two separate worlds

But its no sacrifice

No sacrifice

Its no sacrifice at all

 

The more I think about, the more I am convinced that Elton John had this hand in mind when he decided to compose the music to "Sacrifice". Lyrics written by Bernie Taupin, by the way.

 

That simple word he is referring to must be ......... pass!

 

Roland

[Al_U_Card]

Matchpoints, intermediate field and opponents (though experienced)

 

NV vs V you hold:

 

♠ AT9x

♥ x

♦ 7xxx

♣ KJ9x

 

RHO you LHO pard

1NT..pass...2♣...2♦

2♥.....3♦.....4♥..pass

pass...??

 

4♥ was bid in a confident manner. Do you sacrifice or pass?

Seems to me that initially the auction might have been the 2♣ bidder has nothing and is trying to get out because my pard has just shown a solid suit and values. The chance that pard might just be looking for a lead and/or a profitable sac zooms up when the opps carry on like we didn't bid! Not playing transfer advances over the 2♦-2♥ makes it hard to show your values, but bid 3♦ so as not to hang pard when he was looking for a ♦ lead against 3NT with KQJx(x).

 

Unless the opps are certifiable, (does occur startlingly frequently in the main room) they are certainly not sacrificing against our D partscore......but are they guessing? Not likely when he could bid 3♥ over you to invite the NT opener.

[Al_U_Card]

And its no sacrifice

Just a simple word

Its two hearts living

In two separate worlds

But its no sacrifice

No sacrifice

Its no sacrifice at all

 

The more I think about, the more I am convinced that Elton John had this hand in mind when he decided to compose the music to "Sacrifice". Lyrics written by Bernie Taupin, by the way.

 

That simple word he is referring to must be ......... pass!

 

Roland

To sacrifice (in English at least, and that is Bernie's native tongue...) means "to make an offering to appease a higher power", or at least "to deny oneself something for the sake of another". Watching them roll into 4H when pard says "Geez, I even had a play for 5♦....."

[luis]

I'm surprised nobody objected the 3♦ bid.

I think the correct bid is 3♠ you show values in spades, support for diamonds and you allow pd to sacrifice in 4♠ if he has 4 cards in spades.

I think the 2♦ bid at this vul can be oriented to look for a sacrifice so I bid 3♠ suggesting a 4♠ sacrifice and a hand not sure about the merits of 5♦ (otherwise I would have bid 4♠).

 

Luis

[han]

Agree Luis. First bidding 3D and then thinking about sacrifi-i-ice is very bad style.

[mikeh]

I don't mind the idea of 3♠ showing ♦: what else can it be?

 

But why suggesting a sacrifice? The 2♣ bidder has not yet shown strength, so why can't 3♠ have a constructive meaning?

 

And, more importantly, surely it makes more sense to show at least 5♠ here?

 

After all, with a 4=4 fit hand, you are less likely to want to bid 3♠ (forcing to 4♦) than with 5=4 or better. And if 3♠ can be 4 cards, what is partner to do over 4♥ with, say, 3=2=6=2 shape and a desire to bid, either as a save or a make? How will you, as the 3♠ bidder, know if his 4♠ is based on 3 or 4 card support?

 

To me 3♦ is entirely reasonable. If we want to get into the auction and at least pave the road for an (unlikely) 4=4 ♠ fit, try 3♥, not 3♠ ;)

 

I do not think the hand is quite good enough for that. Nor do I think that 4♦ or 5♦ are correct: see my previous post for rationale.

 

Finally, to advert to my favourite theme, if you were the 2♦ bidder would you, absent prior agreement, think 3♠ showed only 4? If not, then this 3♠ suggestion is another example of the bid fitting the hand, rather than the converse.

[whereagles]

Thx all. In practice 4♥ was indeed going down 1, but that was mainly because pard had a very unsuitable hand for his overcall (Qx xxx AT9xx Qxx).

 

About 3♦: it's acutally not as bad as some of you think. The reasoning was: "I'm not going to bid 4♦ because that might push them to a borderline game that might make. If they stop in 3♥, fine. Otherwise I'll think about it. I'm also not passing because I want pard to bid 5♦ over 4♥ with a suitable hand."

 

To bid 3 and follow-up with 5 is often dismissed as "beginner's move" by LOTT people, but there are situations where to think of it like that is an oversimplification.

 

About 5♦: was bid because this particular partner might have not interpreted 3♦ as a save-suggesting move, so bidder was in a bit of a guess. By the way, 3♠ as fit-bid was not an option with this pard either.