iggygork Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 Playing 2/1 you hold: [hv=d=n&v=n&s=sxxhdakjxxckqjxxx]133|100|Scoring: MP[/hv] Pard deals and opens 1♠, RHO overcalls 4♥. Your call. Feel free to post a plan for the remainder of the auction if you so desire. LHO will bid 5♥ if allowed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 I play X is neg, 4N is keycard in this auction (usually i don't play keycard in competitive auctions but 1M-4oM-4N is an exception). I won't make a neg X with this hand though, as it is almost sure to be passed. I would bid 5N pick a slam and hope for the best. I don't need much for slam to make, I could miss a grand but it's too tough. I'm just going to try to get to the right strain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cf_John0 Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 The best is forcing pass here,IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 The best is forcing pass here,IMO. Huh? Pard has shown 11+, you could have 0. What is so forcing about a pass under these conditions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker_gib Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 The best is forcing pass here,IMO. I can't understand that :) How can you expect partner to see that pass as forcing when you can have 0 !? 5NT looks like the more practical bid We can still have 7 but it is too tough after the preempt. Alain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chamaco Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 I play X is neg, 4N is keycard in this auction (usually i don't play keycard in competitive auctions but 1M-4oM-4N is an exception). I won't make a neg X with this hand though, as it is almost sure to be passed. I would bid 5N pick a slam and hope for the best. I don't need much for slam to make, I could miss a grand but it's too tough. I'm just going to try to get to the right strain. Justin, what would 1S-(4H)-5H be in your scheme ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker_gib Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 Justin, what would 1S-(4H)-5H be in your scheme ? That shoud show a ♠ fit, imho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chamaco Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 Justin, what would 1S-(4H)-5H be in your scheme ? That shoud show a ♠ fit, imho Agree (and I was not suggesting to use it for this hand), but what implications about hearts ?1st round control, 2nd round control, EKB ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 Me is bidding 5NT as justin, with the difference that I have no worries whatsoever of missing a grand :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 5NT would be taken as GSF by my partner. I would bid 5♦ hoping to be able to bid 6♣ next round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 Justin, what would 1S-(4H)-5H be in your scheme ? That shoud show a ♠ fit, imho Agree (and I was not suggesting to use it for this hand), but what implications about hearts ?1st round control, 2nd round control, EKB ? You don't need first round control for this bid imo (could be second). The reason is, if you don't want to FORCE to slam (via keycard or something else) but want to invite it, you have 2 bids, 5H and 5S. I would use 5S without a heart control, and 5H with one. So with a second round control under that logic 5H would be bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 5NT would be taken as GSF by my partner. I would bid 5♦ hoping to be able to bid 6♣ next round. Might partner not correct with equal length (such as 2-2)? It seems like if this was your plan 5C then 5N would be better as it would get you to the right strain at least (and if 5m were to go all pass, you'd rather be in clubs I think). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chamaco Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 You don't need first round control for this bid imo (could be second). The reason is, if you don't want to FORCE to slam (via keycard or something else) but want to invite it, you have 2 bids, 5H and 5S. I would use 5S without a heart control, and 5H with one. So with a second round control under that logic 5H would be bid. Thx a lot Justin ! these sequences are not well documented, it's nice to have some suggestions about them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 4NT followed by 6C over 5H. Mikeh, I play 4NT as minors here, and not because it fits the hand. (just teasing ;) ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 My negative doubles stop at 4♦. Double of 4♥ is card showing - 13 preferably. 4N describes this hand pretty well. I will bid 5N over 5♦ which shows spade tolerance and great clubs. Over 5♣ I'm trying 5♥. If pard has a doubleton diamond, a grand is very much in the picture. All I really need are 3 bullets and 4 clubs. I don't like a direct 5N. It preempts us and I think it show better spade tolerance than xx. I also can't squeeze in a heart cue bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 I play negative doubles much higher than the 4 level. But this hand I would never made a negative double here (now if they had bid 5♥ or 6♥ get back to me). Over 4♥ I will also not bid 5NT. Partner will take this as pick a slam, for sure, but he will never imagine me with xx in ♠. I don't mind suggesting spades as a potential contract, but only AFTER I get him to pick a minor first. (And I am bidding a slam for us here)... So I bid, 4NT with the (oh so un-original idea) of bidding 5NT over partners minor choice. Ideally this is some kind of pick a slam with interest primarily in the minor we just bid, but with a begruding tolerance for ♠.... if he corrects to 6NT I may shoot myself... Should partner rebid ♠ despite my request for him to bid a minor, I will consider the possibility of grand slam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 I'm not sure why partner would think 5N would show more in spades when im asking him to pick a slam in a MINOR :ph34r: With spade support I would support (5H or something else). I guess if you play 4N as pick a minor then it makes sense for 5N to be something else, but unfortunately I play keycard here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iggygork Posted September 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 Thank you all for your comments, it was instructive to read the different treatments of 4NT and 5NT in this crowded auction. I posted this hand for two reasons: 1. It actually came up Wednesday night in a club MP game.2. I was wondering about the interpretation of 4/5 NT in this auction, especially in contrast to BPO-005D, an excellent problem in the newest BPO set. In that problem, the auction goes 1NT by pard, 4S by pesky RHO and the expert panel was split among 4NT's different possible interpretations (natural or two-suited takeout if memory serves me right). The hand in that problem was: [hv=d=w&v=n&s=sk5ha8dkjt874cjt4]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartA Posted September 24, 2005 Report Share Posted September 24, 2005 I am surprised to see that I am the only one to vote for 5♥. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted September 24, 2005 Report Share Posted September 24, 2005 I'm not sure why partner would think 5N would show more in spades when im asking him to pick a slam in a MINOR :) With spade support I would support (5H or something else). 5N is pick-a-slam - not pick a 'minor' slam. If 4N isn't KC then 5N is more clearly defined and should promise secondary spades. So 5N should promise at least secondary spade support...which I aint got. Are you really going to cue bid 5♥ on a 3=0=5=5? I supposed you are fixed with 4N being KC here however. The idea of making a negative double with a weaker 6-5 than the subject hand makes me nauseous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted September 24, 2005 Report Share Posted September 24, 2005 I'm not sure why partner would think 5N would show more in spades when im asking him to pick a slam in a MINOR :) With spade support I would support (5H or something else). Huh? 5N is pick-a-slam - not pick a 'minor' slam. 5N should promise at least secondary spade support...which I aint got. Are you really going to cue bid 5♥ on a 3=0=5=5? umm yes... How can pick a slam include spades, clubs, and diamonds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted September 24, 2005 Report Share Posted September 24, 2005 I'm not sure why partner would think 5N would show more in spades when im asking him to pick a slam in a MINOR :) With spade support I would support (5H or something else). Huh? 5N is pick-a-slam - not pick a 'minor' slam. 5N should promise at least secondary spade support...which I aint got. Are you really going to cue bid 5♥ on a 3=0=5=5? umm yes... How can pick a slam include spades, clubs, and diamonds? Wow J you were quick here - got your comments in before I edited them. :P :) I've never heard of pick-a-slam being restricted to 2 suits. Go back to the discussion on the hand last week where we were discussing the action after a quantitative auction: 2♣ - 2♦ - 2N - 4N. 5N was clearly a type of pick-a-slam and it wasn't restricted to ANY of the 4 suits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted September 24, 2005 Report Share Posted September 24, 2005 Apples and oranges. 1) there is a suit bid by the opps here, so obviously that is out.2) partner bid a suit. We have a chance to show support for that suit. We do not. To me that ostensibly denies support for his suit. Of course I could correct whatever to 6S, offering a choice between S+NT. I could correct clubs to diamonds offering a choice between D and S. But for his purposes he will assume i have MINORS. how else would i bid with 6-7 in the minors and a slam going hand? what bid would I make? 5N would be my only choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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