Unethical Scheduling

[Echognome]

I'm more curious than concerned. I decided to run a tournament yesterday and was planning on it being a small tournament with only friends entering. With about 10 mins to go before the start I learned that several of my friends decided that they wouldnt' play, so I opened it up to the public to fill out the movement and make it more interesting.

 

This really angered someone that had scheduled a free tournament that was going to start 10 mins after mine. I normally do not schedule tournaments that clash with paid tournaments and in particular, if they are running an individual, I will run a pairs event or if they are running MPs, I will run IMP pairs, etc. I certainly do not mind if someone schedules tournaments near mine as I am only offering free tournaments to people. I could not believe a person running a free tournament would care if someone else also ran a free tournament around the same time.

 

In regards to the particular situation, the person was running a normal pairs tournament, whereas I was running a Fast Pairs tournament (5 min/board) with pre-dealt hands. I hardly felt that they were the same thing and because of the late opening to the public, my tournament had far fewer entries than this latter tournament.

 

I know BBO doesn't regulate when we are allowed to run free tournaments. I'm just wondering if this was considered "unethical", which is what the other TD accused me of being.

[uday]

if this was considered "unethical

 

Most emphatically, not.

 

Some TDs can be quite proprietary about "their" slots. I say there's no such thing as too many free Ts. A large number of smaller Ts is a heck of a lot better from my perspective than a small number of huge Ts.

 

So, you can ignore any complaints. The only exceptions to this might be

 

 

- If the TD of a pay tourney ever harasses you for scheduling a free T, let me know via email -- uday@

 

- If you deliberately "go after" a pay T (or any T, for that matter), using your ability to create a T as a weapon, i will remove that ability.

[Guest Jlall]

I agree with uday. As a "customer" (if that word applies when it's a free product involved) how can it be bad if I have more options? If you would not have scheduled your tournament then and I was in the mood for a tournament, I would be forced to play a normal pairs. Because you scheduled yours, I get a choice of fast pairs or normal pairs. This is NOT a bad thing. Even if you had the same exact type of tournament, I would have a choice and this isn't bad. Nothing you did was unethical, it was beneficial towards all members of BBO.

[shoeless]

Nope not right Justin - not beneficial to the other tourney director. I think people interpret ethics in different ways depending on their culture and perspective. Westerns stand in line and join the line at the back normally - asians don't, and because they dont see a line they go to the front. My only suggestion would be if there is a tourney coming up shortly and then a gap maybe slot yours just after theirs starts and not before - might avoid some conflict.

[inquiry]

Well, no one in their right mind would have played in your tourney last night. (BTW, I came in fifth or six... but we all know about my mental status). Five minutes per board is SIMPLY not enough time. We old-timers ahve known this since the days with 2over1 tried (very unsuccefully) to run "speed-ball" tourneys at 5 minutes per board. Six mintues per board with 3 boards per round, or 7 minutes per board with 2 boards per round are reasonable minimum times to hold an event.

 

I actually signup, then withdrew when I found out it was five minutes per board. My partner convinced me to give it a try (five per board, four boards per round... so I thought, maybe this would be ok). But I had an additional complicatoin. I didn't go invisible and you allowed chat with players so I also got a lot of chatter from people who saw my yellow name and had problems. To our credit, we finished all but one board, and even that one was at a claim point. But I play and bid fast... to be sure to get there...and as a result mad a number of careless mistakes (Throwing high card udner their cards as I was clicking and clicking to beat the clock... for instance).

 

Run them again, but add time. :-)

 

For more on time isssues you can search this forum for speedball or look at this link...

 

http://forums.bridgebase.com/index.php?sho...indpost&p=11716

 

Ben

[pigpenz]

I myself set up tournaments when ever i feel like i need something to do, last one I ran i got a msg from someone else who was running a tournament,saying maybe i sould play in his, it was all friendly but it didt makeme think.

 

In all the games I have ever run on BBO there are always alot of takers who are willing to play in free games. Long Live Free Bridge :)

[Guest Jlall]

Nope not right Justin - not beneficial to the other tourney director.

As far as I'm concerned, that's really not important. There are thousands of people on BBO at any given time. There is one "other" director to worry about. If one director is doing something beneficial to those thousands of people, sorry but I am not sympathetic to the other director with selfish complaints.

[jillybean]

Nope not right Justin - not beneficial to the other tourney director.

I’ve got to ask… who actually is the beneficiary?

The players, BBO, the TD if being paid...free market as it should be

 

jb

[inquiry]

My only suggestion would be if there is a tourney coming up shortly and then a gap maybe slot yours just after theirs starts and not before - might avoid some conflict.

It is impossible to do this "slotting" issue. The list of upcoming tourneys streches for days. IF you see a tourney in like 20 minutes, and you say, ok I will start mine in 25 minutes, you end up in front of the one scheduled to start 30 minutes from now... you can see the problem...

 

There is another problem.. Free tourneys are due to the good nature of kind hearted people who decide to run them, when they have time. If they log on, and say, I have an hour to kill and none of my parnters are on line, I shall run a tourney... obvoulsy if they have to wait 30 minutes to fit it in, they might not do it...

 

Ben

[Al_U_Card]

We ALL are, but because of this open and lively discussion.......it promotes the discovery of new and valuable ideas that can profit everyone. (If you decide to start your tourney 10 min after the other one, that is your prerogative, even if it satisfies one TD and incommodates the more numerous participants in yours..... ) Rules, like conventions solve one problem and create others.....

[shoeless]

Don't get me wrong - I am all for free tourneys when and how people want to give of their time. Frankly if the system could make it happen a time board for starting tourney every minute would be cool - if a time slot is free - click on it and claim it - let the chips fall where they may. I think those that feel slighted now by start ups close to their tourney might not feel so strongly with this type of system. Grab your time a week ahead if you like. Can't imagine that we would hit more than 60 free tourneys an hour in the forseeable future. However not something i would rush out to program.

[pigpenz]

Don't get me wrong - I am all for free tourneys when and how people want to give of their time. Frankly if the system could make it happen a time board for starting tourney every minute would be cool - if a time slot is free - click on it and claim it - let the chips fall where they may. I think those that feel slighted now by start ups close to their tourney might not feel so strongly with this type of system. Grab your time a week ahead if you like. Can't imagine that we would hit more than 60 free tourneys an hour in the forseeable future. However not something i would rush out to program.

also I am sure some people may pick the tourney they wan to play in by who is directing and what type of game it is. I have found that sometimes you decided to run a tourney and only give 15 minutes notice, next thing you know you have 60 tables. An ACBL game advertieses its time slot every dat at the same time and may only get 30 tables, in short some people like FREE bridge.

[candybar]

I also was hassled once (maybe 2 weeks ago) by a free tourney TD about this. The next free tourney was in 35 minutes, and it was one of those open chat, no psyche, beginner thingys that I hate anyway, so I decided to start one.

 

To avoid interferring, I deliberately scheduled mine for 15 minutes away, to leave a 20 minute gap before the next free one, and I STILL got called unethical and unfair, and told I didn't know the BBO rules about scheduling tourneys, all by the TD of that next free tourney. He even threatened to report me to abuse for it.

 

I just told him I would run my tourney whenever I felt like, and good luck to him, but I think maybe we should have a consistant plan for this, like tell a yellow at the time it happens and let the yellow inform them of BBO's policy. Do the yellow's all know uday's position on this?

[inquiry]

Do the yellow's all know uday's position on this?

Yes, all yellow know this well established and long standing policy

[mr1303]

Back in the days when all tourneys were free, I had many arguments with a director who kept complaining about me running my regular tournament, which I had previously scheduled with Gweny (before he started running his). Apparantly I had to give way since he ran a bigger one using qualified directors.

 

Needless to say the director is on my enemy list.

[rigour6]

I used to run two or three tourney every day, and at that time it was not at all infrequent for a director of a pay tourney to ask me to change my start time or limit the size.

 

I know this is considered wrong by uday and others, but frankly, I didn't mind. I understand pay tourneys, I think those TDs earn their money (big time!) and it also helps support BBO. So I am glad to do it.

 

These days it happens much more rarely.

 

One thing I do now is take a look and see what's coming up. If it's all Pairs, then here comes my "Fast Play 8, slower play 7" Indy. If it's Indy heavy then here comes "The Quickness" or "The Eliminator". And if it's full of both I say hey no need, what tourney am I gonna play in? ;)

 

I can't see what the point is in having an ego about a service you're providing free to others. There's 4000 people online, what do I care if my tourney is 5 tables or 55? Is this supposed to be some reflection on me as a person?

[shoeless]

I was wondering when someone was going to say this. Right on!!!

[barmar]

I can't see what the point is in having an ego about a service you're providing free to others. There's 4000 people online, what do I care if my tourney is 5 tables or 55? Is this supposed to be some reflection on me as a person?

As a player, I prefer to play in larger tourneys, since the results are more meaningful; in a small IMP Pairs tourney, one extreme result throws off the scores of a board significantly. So I don't see it as ego for the you, but whether your players will have as much fun as they could have.

[candybar]

I don't see it as ego, but I do like to have fairly big tourneys. I guess it has to do with getting as much value (contribution to BBO) as possible for the time I invest in directing a tourney.

[jillybean]

I have just waited for a pay indy tournament to start before I put up an indy of my own.

When I first looked the tournament was 5 mins out, when I checked again it was 2mins, ....then 3mins....then 5 mins.

 

I gave up and just posted my tourney anyway.

 

jb