inquiry Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 [hv=d=w&v=n&s=sk5ha8dkjt874cjt4]133|100|Scoring: IMPBPO-005DWEST NORTH EAST SOUTH PASS 1NT 4♠ ? your bid Partner opens second seat 1NT, RHO leaps to 4♠.... your bid. [/hv] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 After going back and forth between double and 5D several times I ended up with a double. The colors make 5D very attractive, but on the other hand the 4S bid at favorable vulnerability may have been quite undiciplined. I think that 5D is likely to make and if it makes will almost certainly score better than 4S doubled. However, 5D may very well go down (spade lead and spade ruff would be a bad start) while 4SX is almost a certain plus score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 I doubled too for similar reasons as Han. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 A good question, what is 4N here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beto Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 A good question, what is 4N here? I would take it as to play, but dont know if i would choose this bid without a regular partner... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartA Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 I voted for 6♦. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 A good question, what is 4N here? I would take it as to play, but dont know if i would choose this bid without a regular partner... Agree as I would take it as 2 places to play :) I think there would be quite a bit of disagreement over the meaning of this bid, even amongst expert. It's a good one to discuss with partners though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 4nt to play...never even thought this was an issue when I voted it. 5D very close second choice and this was assuming 4nt was to play :). I think 5d is such a close choice..but with all this 4nt confusion I am getting nervous. I thought 4nt was to play and simple..rats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Hi, 5D. For me, 4 NT would be artificial, allowing to differentiatebetween good hands and weaer hand.4 NT to play would never occur to me, if we can make4NT, they will go down a lot in 4S, maybe only 500 when we could have 630, but sometimes 1100. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elianna Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 DBL. I'm not sure that 5D is making, and even less sure about 6D, so I'm going to try to set this enough tricks to at least not lose too many imps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben42 Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 I bid 5♦. If 4NT is a 2-suited hand, it can't be to play, and vice versa. I think it's 2-suited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 i voted to take a shot in the dark with 6nt.. i think 6d is doomed on a spade lead, but after looking at the comments double must be better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blofeld Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 I'm doubling, despite the vulnerability. I have no guarantee that anything I can bid is making (in particular the threat against a ♦ contract seems to be the ♠A and another for partner to ruff), and I have no guarantee that we can't extract 800 from 4♠x. I would have assumed that 4NT was showing two places to play, but even if I can bid it to play I prefer double. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 BPO-005D: 6N The is one of the thorniest bidding problems that I've ever seen. Lets make the reasonable assumption that 4S bidding is sitting on 8 Spades to the AQJ. He might have something on the outside. He might have a bid 6-5 or some such... Declaring a Diamond contract is far too dangerous. We can virtually guarantee a defense starting with Spade to the Ace followed by a Spade ruff. If the defense has a second trick based on power, we're down in 5D. From my perspective, declaring a Diamond contract is equivalent to betting that LHO holds a Spade void... 4NT is very likely our best contract. Even if we can't bring home the Diamond suit, we should have enough strength to take 10 tricks. Unfortunately, we can't play 4NT. Since a double would be penalty, 4NT needs to be used for two suited takeout. If we were to bid 4NT, we're toast over a 5C (our 5D rebid would show the Reds. We don't have the right hand for 5S or 5N) This leaves two fairly unpalatable bids. Double and 6N. The pessimists chose double, guaranteeing a plus score, though potentially not a very big one. Ridiculous optimists bid 6N. A lot of RHO's strength is wasted in Spades. Give partner a perfect sub-minimum like S xxH xxxD AxxC AKQxx and 6N is on a hook... Preempts work. You don't have remotely enough space to explore intelligently and its folly to pretend that you do. I'm feeling optimistic today, so I'm bidding 6N and hoping for the best... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 4NT would be a 2-suiter for me. I admire the 6NT bidders. It is not unlikely that it will make. It is also not unlikely that it will go down 7, perhaps doubled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chamaco Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 I voted for 6♦. 6D runs the risk of losing on opening Ace of spades and spades ruff. If I had to bid a slam here I'd overbid 6NT hoping to pick up the needed tricks in the minors making use of the distributional info available. If not 6NT I'd just double Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted September 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 This one is back to the Brazilian Team Championships semi-finals, where Oliveria overcalled 1NT with 4♠, and Amoeda was faced with this problem. The choice at the table was 4NT, which I thought was "wrong" and hence the problem. All is well that ends well for Amoeda however, as his partner bid 5♦ and that became the final contract (there happened to be 10 tricks in NT and 11 tricks is diamonds) not that it matters for the problem. Also 4♠X is down exactly one. I felt this a worthy problem to discuss the meaning of 4NT. It is clear the Brazilian pair played this 4NT as natural and would be a nice a treatment on this particular hand. The hand was also intereting from a hand evaluation standpoint. After a natural 4NT and partner bidding 5♦ showing ♦, south still passed. I think this goes a long way to address the slam potential on this hand. The 6♦ and 6NT bidders are taking too big a gamble imho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 This one is back to the Brazilian Team Championships semi-finals, where Oliveria overcalled 1NT with 4♠, and Amoeda was faced with this problem. The choice at the table was 4NT, which I thought was "wrong" and hence the problem. Once again, a link would be nice to see the hands in question... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted September 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 This one is back to the Brazilian Team Championships semi-finals, where Oliveria overcalled 1NT with 4♠, and Amoeda was faced with this problem. The choice at the table was 4NT, which I thought was "wrong" and hence the problem. Once again, a link would be nice to see the hands in question... Once again, I don't think the actual hand is of that much interest to the problem. On the other hand, of course, choosing vugraph hands was done on purpose to provide some extra excitement (and since one of the hands was BETO's and then he joined the panel, it added even an extra level of interest). Anyway, here is the hand... please try not to let the actual hand influence your thoughts on what the bids should mean and what action you should take... The hand was board 12 Bra. Team Trial, semi-final 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 I voted for 4NT hoping it was "To Play". However, seeing that it is probably more useful as two places to play, my delayed second choice is double. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigpenz Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 I voted for 4NT, didnt think that there was any way to beat 4♠x enough to make up for vul game. at5♦ the king is most likely worthless. Granted there may be some mis interpetation of 4NT, we do have 75% of the cards and 4NT should be ok, and if partner mininterpets then there is still a chance we migh tland on our feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 This one is back to the Brazilian Team Championships semi-finals, where Oliveria overcalled 1NT with 4♠, and Amoeda was faced with this problem. The choice at the table was 4NT, which I thought was "wrong" and hence the problem. Once again, a link would be nice to see the hands in question... Once again, I don't think the actual hand is of that much interest to the problem. On the other hand, of course, choosing vugraph hands was done on purpose to provide some extra excitement (and since one of the hands was BETO's and then he joined the panel, it added even an extra level of interest). Anyway, here is the hand... please try not to let the actual hand influence your thoughts on what the bids should mean and what action you should take... The hand was board 12 Bra. Team Trial, semi-final 3 I think that looking at the actual hands is interesting since it provides some perspective regarding how different bids might have worked out. Martinez chose to bid 4NT. Presumably this was for takeout. Machado bid 4♦ which was the best possible response to hear. Martinez happily passed. 5♦ rolled home. If we look at the actual hands here a couple points stand out: 1. What agree did Martinez and Machado actually have about 4NT? More specifically, what would a 5♦ rebid show over a 5♣ advance? I'm having trouble believing that they were using 4NT as a two suited takeout... 2. Look what happens if we switch Chagas's Ace of Clubs with the Ace of Spades. in this case, the defense starts with Spade to the Ace followed by a Spade ruff. At this point in time, the 5♦ contract hinges on the same Club hook as 6N... As I noted earlier, steering the hand towards a Diamond contract doesn't make much sense... Admittedly, we're looking at a VERY narrow sample, but it still helps illustrate some basic points Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Dbl. Bridge is a guessing game.. lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebound Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 I believe I went with 5♦, just for the record, but i'm easily convinced double is theoretically better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double ! Posted September 22, 2005 Report Share Posted September 22, 2005 I elected to bid 4NT- to bid what I think we can make.Ignorance is bliss: wasn't aware that the expert interpretation of 4NT in this situation is minor 2-suiter (certainly not without prior agreement), and I am not sure that it should be. It seems to me that I should have the option available to me to bid the contract that I suspect will have the best play. I am very concerned about the possibility of not being able to make 5, much less 6 diamonds, and 6NT seems like taking an outright view on the hand. Oh, well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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