mikeh Posted September 16, 2005 Report Share Posted September 16, 2005 mps 2♥. It is possible that partner will be able to bid over this, altho unlikely, so we have not missed every game yet <_< In the meantime, we are in a high-scoring, probably safe, contract. BTW, partner might only hold 2♣ in many styles of 2/1. Especially with non-Flannery players: what is partner to bid with 4=5=2=2 and poor ♥? And many play that one rebids 2♣ with 3=5=3=2. 2N is to much of a gamble for mps. Partner will pass too often, and I don't like my chances in 2N opp a minimum 2=5=2=4. Nor do I want to reach 3♥ opp a poor 2=5=1=5 or so. 3♦ is 'safe' and may reach games or slams unreachable via 2♥, but I would be worried about 130 v 140 etc. Imps: a much, much easier decision. Game is possible: heck, slam is possible. Partner could be x Axxxx AKx Axxx, making 7♦ on a good day. So 2♥ is just not enough. The choices are 2N, 3♦, and 3♥. I reject 3♥, since it shows a hand that bears little resemblance to the one I am looking at, unless I can convincingly claim that I missorted my cards: easier to do in real life than on BBO. 2N aims at one of the possible games, but I am worried that we will not be able to establish the ♦ suit before they run ♠(altho we may not need to opp many hands). More importantly, 2N will be a terrible contract if partner passes, and it does not aim at the other possible game (5♦) nor at the (unlikely but possible) slams. So I choose 3♦. 3♦ does not rule out 3N, altho it makes it tough to reach in some hands, and we may reach it when we shouldn't, on others. Partner will expect a better source of tricks, but maybe my outside cards will compensate (we may even have 9 winners outside the ♦ suit if he bids 3N) And the clincher is that we can reach 5♦ or even 6♦ after 3♦. I have been so persuavive on this (to me, anyway) that I am tempted to go back and bid 3♦ at mps as well :angry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted September 16, 2005 Report Share Posted September 16, 2005 I have been so persuavive on this (to me, anyway) that I am tempted to go back and bid 3♦ at mps as well :D pfft, who bids minors in MP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted September 16, 2005 Report Share Posted September 16, 2005 I hate 2♥ here. You have 3 great cards, and 2♥ could be bid with one. I would bid 3♦ at any form of scoring. It will not always enable partner to judge whether he should bid 3NT (he may devalue hands without diamond honors opposite which we just have 9 tricks in the other 3 suits), but I think it will help him more than any other bid. Arend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted September 16, 2005 Report Share Posted September 16, 2005 FWIW (and im a 2N bidder) I think some overvalue the CQ. Do you get excited about Qx of clubs when partner opens 1C? 2C here is often suspect (rarely 2, somewhat frequently 3) so I wouldn't get TOO excited about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted September 16, 2005 Report Share Posted September 16, 2005 FWIW (and im a 2N bidder) I think some overvalue the CQ. Do you get excited about Qx of clubs when partner opens 1C? 2C here is often suspect (rarely 2, somewhat frequently 3) so I wouldn't get TOO excited about it. No, but I devalued Qx before partner bid 2♣, and now it has full value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_U_Card Posted September 16, 2005 Report Share Posted September 16, 2005 I have been so persuavive on this (to me, anyway) that I am tempted to go back and bid 3♦ at mps as well :D pfft, who bids minors in MP? The opps, all the damn time.... :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge2k Posted September 16, 2005 Report Share Posted September 16, 2005 1, Yes. 1NT is fine. 2, 2NT. don't like 3D. D suit is unlikely the source of tricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted September 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2005 Thanks all. Hands were[hv=d=w&v=b&w=sxha9xxxdkxcaktxx&e=saxhkxdjtxxxxxcqx]266|100|Scoring: MP1♥ 1NT2♣ ...?[/hv]Not easy to reach 5♦ on these hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted September 17, 2005 Report Share Posted September 17, 2005 I guess 3D was the winning bid on the actual layout. Partner will obviously get us to 5D. Over 2H he would just pass (no I do not think he's close to considering 3C). Over 2N, he might bid 3N or he might bid 3D (assuming 3C is NF it's doubtful he'd do that). 3D would work well obviously, but it should probably show 3. In real life I think people would just bid 3N. Still, I would hate to just bid 3N over 2N. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMetsch Posted September 17, 2005 Report Share Posted September 17, 2005 Still, I would hate to just bid 3N over 2N. Any thoughts?You can play a simple conventional follow up after 1M - 1NT; 2m - 2NT: 3m = MIN, 5-53om = MAX, 5-53M = MIN, 6-43OM = MAX, 6-4 With this hand you probably get to 4♥. It is almost impossible to bid 5♦ if partner rebids 2NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted September 17, 2005 Report Share Posted September 17, 2005 Do I have to have 10 cards between my two suits to bid 1M and rebid 2m?? What do the hands with 54 bid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_c Posted September 17, 2005 Report Share Posted September 17, 2005 What do the hands with 54 bid?There's a more complex scheme described in Fred's articles on 2/1GF, which deals with those if you're worried about them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMetsch Posted September 17, 2005 Report Share Posted September 17, 2005 What do the hands with 54 bid?3NT. Sure you may miss a good 5-3 fit, if you can't bid your fragment. But 3NT should not be uneasonable if partner bids NT twice. Shaping out may also help the defense, with the lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted September 17, 2005 Report Share Posted September 17, 2005 What do the hands with 54 bid?3NT. Sure you may miss a good 5-3 fit, if you can't bid your fragment. But 3NT should not be uneasonable if partner bids NT twice. Shaping out may also help the defense, with the lead. finding a 5-3 fit is not the only advantage of patterning out. Avoiding a terrible 3N to get to 5m or 4M in a 5-2 or 4-3 is another advantage. You're right, you may help the defense, but you also help your own side find the right contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted September 17, 2005 Report Share Posted September 17, 2005 Even is West doesn't make a move over 2♥ (perhaps dubious), hearts looks like a reasonable spot in MP's, maybe scoring really well if they split. By the way, where are the opps with their TEN spades? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted September 17, 2005 Report Share Posted September 17, 2005 Thanks all. Hands were[hv=d=w&v=b&w=sxha9xxxdkxcaktxx&e=saxhkxdjtxxxxxcqx]266|100|Scoring: MP1♥ 1NT2♣ ...?[/hv]Not easy to reach 5♦ on these hands. Agreed I'm not going to kick myself for missing a 24 HCP 5m contract playing Matchpoints... As I recall, Kit Woolsey once suggest that if you find yourself in 5m playing MP, you might as well just bid six since the odds that you we're in the right contract was miniscule... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted September 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2005 hrothgar, that was exactly what happened at table! At some stage we were in 5♦ and I said "what the heck... I might as well bid 6!!" So I did that and guess what: pard takes the heart lead in hand and leads a diam. LHO puts up the ace.. and the queen crashes :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 I guess 3D was the winning bid on the actual layout. Partner will obviously get us to 5D. Over 2H he would just pass (no I do not think he's close to considering 3C). Over 2N, he might bid 3N or he might bid 3D (assuming 3C is NF it's doubtful he'd do that). 3D would work well obviously, but it should probably show 3. In real life I think people would just bid 3N. Still, I would hate to just bid 3N over 2N. Any thoughts? ♠ singleton is really awful, clearly there is a good point for underbidding 3♣ on this hand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted September 22, 2005 Report Share Posted September 22, 2005 This hand is nice for a treatment I learned from a pro friend. After a forcing NT, 2NT is a GF relay to 3C, with next bids natural and GF. 1H-P-1NT-P-3NEW is then showing 5-5 shape, five losers. Perfect for this. Granted, you end up in a quandry after 3C, for a second. But, 3D should be forcing and quite effective. Even if not, you play 4H, which probably scores 420. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted September 22, 2005 Report Share Posted September 22, 2005 Thanks all. Hands were[hv=d=w&v=b&w=sxha9xxxdkxcaktxx&e=saxhkxdjtxxxxxcqx]266|100|Scoring: MP1♥ 1NT2♣ ...?[/hv]Not easy to reach 5♦ on these hands. As I suggested in my post, maybe you need to reconsider your methods, and as hannie pointed out with this hand, it is nice to have 1♥=3♦ as invitiational, nonforcing (which is what we play). I can imagine 1♥=3♦ auction leasing to 5♦ without too much difficulty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted September 22, 2005 Report Share Posted September 22, 2005 I also play 1M-3m as natural invite. I'm not sure if I would use it here on such a poor suit with so much outside. This would certainly not be the typical hand. I would probably bid 1N anyways. Then over 2C if 3D were used as an invite with a poor suit I would use that (obviously). However, I usually play that as fit showing in this context so I would bid 2N...lol. Well at least I'm consistent. This hand basically boils down to one thing; are you going to treat this as an invitational with diamonds hand or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cf_John0 Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 Thanks all. Hands were[hv=d=w&v=b&w=sxha9xxxdkxcaktxx&e=saxhkxdjtxxxxxcqx]266|100|Scoring: MP1♥ 1NT2♣ ...?[/hv]Not easy to reach 5♦ on these hands. If [1x-1NT][2y-3Z] indicates that the responder has a good suit just under 2o1 GF,this 5D would be not too difficult to arrive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted September 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 Hum.. Ben, even if I were to play 1M-3m as natural, invitation (whose virtues I am not convinced of :)), I really don't think such a bid should be done on a hand with weakish diamonds and partial heart support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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