Rebid after forcing 1NT

[whereagles]

Matchpoints, all vuln, you hold:

 

♠ Ax

♥ Kx

♦ JTxxxxx

♣ Qx

 

Pard you

1♥ 1NT

2♣ ...?

 

1. Agree with 1NT? (The other option was 2♦ game forcing.)

2. Having bid 1NT, what do you bid now? (Playing natural.)

[PMetsch]

1. yes

2. 2♥, though the hand is very good

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

1) Yes

2) 2NT

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Gerben42]

Yes and 3♦

[Double !]

1) agree

 

2) 3 diamonds

[Chamaco]

1. yes,

although after reading hrothgar's post I might consider a direct 2H = constructive raise, stealing one card in hearts.

the one thing I will never bid is 2H after 1NT forcing.

 

If I have to land in 2H I do not want to do it via an ambiguous sequence reached after 1NT forcing, when opener might not kknow whether I have 3 card support and a bust, or a constructive hand with a doubleton.

 

There was a similar argument in one of Marshall Miles books I think (or was it Danny Kleinman? I forgot) about raising immediately 2M with 10 hcp and Hx support rather than using 1NT forcing.

 

 

 

2. 2NT

[Jurek S]

Don't know and don't know :)

3♦ is defined as 10-12 VERY good suit. So partner is likely misevaluate.

Would you really play this hand in NT ? especially in face of 5431 ?

 

Waiting for yours analysis

[hrothgar]

VERY nasty problem...

 

1. The hand is not strong enough for a game forcing 2♦. 1NT seems like the most reasonable bid.

 

2. The hand revalues slightly after the 2♣ rebid. The Queen of Clubs is suddenly looking like a real card...

 

3. 2♦, 2♥, and 2N are all plausible rebids. I can see decent arguments in favor of each one.

 

2♦ emphasises the most prominant feature of the hand. The Diamond suit is worth a lot more in a Diamond contract than in Hearts or NT. The problem with 2♦ is that it grossly understates your strength.

 

2♥ is typically used as a two-way bid, showing either a very weak 3 card raise (10 losers or so) or a constructive values with 2 card support.

 

2NT shows a game invite in NT. This rebid really does a nice job showing your strength.

 

I prefer 2♥ to 2NT. You have a lot of controls (Ace of Spades, King of Hearts) which suggest a suit contract. The Spade suit could be a big problem for you in NT. Both of these suggest a Heart contract. Equally significant, 2NT NEVER scores well and partner really won't have the right information to make an intelligent decision regarding whether or not to bid 3N.

[Gerben42]

3♦ is defined as 10-12 VERY good suit.

 

Where? I think it's defined as an invitational hand with long ♦. If you bid 2♥ or 2NT you are giving up

what might very likely be the best strain (you know, the suit where more than half of your cards are?).

[inquiry]

The problem here is you are not playing Riton 2♣, where you open minimal hands with ♥ + ♣ with 2♥, so that this 2♣ rebid would show extra values (but not necessarily clubs). Here parntner might have two clubs and six hearts, or 5-5 in the two suits and weak. Sigh....

 

Ok, this hand has three useful cards. The textbook bid I think (at least the ones I go by) is 2♥. I see no reason not to bid that. I also see a lot of reasons to reconsider my methods.

[Jurek S]

I'm still using http://www.annam.co.uk/ 2/1 as reference. Is there any better description of SAYC or 2/1 standards BBO ?

And 2♥ rebid could be 3-6 with 3♥ also (and I think 80% of all)

After all I'm 2NT bidder

[david_c]

The problem here is you are not playing Riton 2♣, where  you open minimal hands with ♥ + ♣ with 2♥, so that this 2♣ rebid would show extra values (but not necessarily clubs). Here parntner might have two clubs and six hearts, or 5-5 in the two suits and weak. Sigh....

Surely you have a similar problem playing Riton 2♣ on this hand: how would you respond to a 2♥ opening?

[pigpenz]

i would bid 2nt, like the K♥

would rather be pushy with the 2NT bid then lie about the 2♦call :)

[hrothgar]

The problem here is you are not playing Riton 2♣, where you open minimal hands with ♥ + ♣ with 2♥, so that this 2♣ rebid would show extra values (but not necessarily clubs). Here parntner might have two clubs and six hearts, or 5-5 in the two suits and weak. Sigh....

What the hell are you talking about?

 

Whereagles asked a good question about a textbook bidding sequence... It would be useful to constrain your answers to the same base system. There are variants of the forcing NT in which opener will rebid a two card club suit in preference to a 3 card Diamond holding. Matula's version of Polish Club is a text book example. However, we're not playing this here so we can pretty much rule out a 2 card club suit. Equally significant, even playing Polish Club, you don't show a 2 card club suit in preference to a six card Heart suit.

[inquiry]

The problem here is you are not playing Riton 2♣, where  you open minimal hands with ♥ + ♣ with 2♥, so that this 2♣ rebid would show extra values (but not necessarily clubs). Here parntner might have two clubs and six hearts, or 5-5 in the two suits and weak. Sigh....

Surely you have a similar problem playing Riton 2♣ on this hand: how would you respond to a 2♥ opening?

Pass... now I know partner is WEAK...

 

The problem with a 2♥ bid on the given auction, is if partner is weak with six hearts, he would rebid 2♥. If he is weak with three clubs and five hearts, he will rebid 2♣. But he can be fairly strong for 2♣ as well. And when I bid 2♥ over 2♣, he doesn't know if I have this hand, or the same type hand with three small spades and one less diamond, for instance.

 

So the advantage, as it was, with Riton 2♣ is when partner opens 2♥ I know where the hand belongs.

 

Let's take it a step further, lets assume I am playing ritong 2♣ and partner opens 1♥ and rebids 2♣. Now I bid 2♦. This doesn't show ♦, this waits to hear what partner does. If he rebids 2♥ or 3♥, I bid 4♥. If he rebids 2NT, I bid 3NT. If he rebids 3♣, I rebid a forcing 3♦. If he rebids 3♦ I am thinking of possible slam. The bidding becomes much easier and descriptive.

[Fluffy]

2♥ is probably the correct one, but I always overbid and would try 3♦

[SoTired]

1) 1N - Part of 2/1 system. If you don't have GF hand, you bid forcing 1N. An initial 2H constructive raise has some appeal

2) 2H or 3D

2H = 6-10 with 2 card support (you have that) or <8 with 3 card support. this is the pessimist bid. This gets you to the most likely making partial, but loses any game chances.

3D = 10-12 with 6+ diam - Optimist bid. Gives you game chances, but if partner has no diam honors, 2H is more likely making. Let's partner bid 3N with diam honors or extra strength.

I don't like 2N because it hides your diam suit and is a poor final contract.

3H would be wrong. If you want raise hearts, do it initially with a constructive 2H. Doing it now is an big overbid. Like you were shocked when partner rebid 2C?

[pclayton]

Over 2♣, I try 2♥ at MPs.

 

At IMPs, I bid 2 1/2 ♦. <_<

[Guest Jlall]

2N. 2H too much of an underbid for my taste.

[Al_U_Card]

Does a 3D rebid deny Hx in Hearts? When pard is a real mini, playing in the 6-1 or 2 fit may be right and btw, you know you're getting a S lead in NT.....

[Al_U_Card]

At IMPs, I bid 2 1/2 ♦. <_<

Has this been accepted by the ACBL?.....rofl

[mike777]

3D

 

I can still have slam on this hand, 2club rebid is very wide range. 1nt forcing/semi is very wide range.

 

Perhaps these 2h/major and 2nt rebids are winning MP strategies by those who play the heck out of hands?

[Al_U_Card]

Pard will bid 3NT over 3D with a S stop. He will bid 3H without and you can play there if he is x in D with a decent 5 card H suit and no S stopper.

 

In NT they get their S and all of their side suit winners. In 3D or H, just the ssw's.

 

Also, seems that the 2NT bid is usual when you have a stiff H or xx.....

[awm]

I believe in bidding my hands. Even at matchpoints, I find that following our agreed methods works out better in the long run than making up bids and trying to "guess the final contract." On this hand, it certainly could be the case that 2♥ is the best partial. But it's a huge underbid and could just as easily keep us out of a cold game, or possibly put us in the wrong partial. Seven card suits are there to be bid. Yes, it is matchpoints, and maybe 2NT will get us +120 and 3♦ only +110. But if partner has nothing in spades, 2NT is probably down. Partner may even raise to 3NT and go down. If 3NT is right, we will get there after a 3♦ call. If 5♦ is right, we are unlikely to get there after a 2NT call.

 

So I'll go with 3♦ -- bid my values and show my seven card suit. Easy game, bridge. <_<

[han]

Also 3D for me, right on values, shape and suit quality (!). I usually have a direct jump to 3D available to show invitational values with a good suit. So partner will not expect a great diamond suit here. If partner has extras then we will likely get to the best game (3NT, 4H or 5D). If partner is minimal then we should be in a reasonable spot, even at MP's.

 

 

Agree with Ben that playing Riton 2C would make life easier. We would not have to mastermind until we know fairly well what kind of hand partner has.