bucky

Believe me, bidding 5NT with this hand only deserves being put in 7 missing trump KQ, then even Garozzo's playing skill cannot compensate for the bidding error.

You didn't tell us what is your method after 1♣ 1♠ 2♠. Does partner have a game-forcing bid at 3-level? Does your partnership allow 3-card raise to 2♠? If the answer is yes, do you have method to check for 3 or 4-card raise? For now I will just offer some opinions without knowing your specific agreements (which is a dangerous thing to do): 1) You need agreement for 4♣. I prefer this bid to show good spades and good clubs (but typically without 5th spade, since otherwise I would start with strong jump shift). But there can be so many other ways to play it, including using it as splinter agreeing spades. It is also playable to use it as choice of game (especially if opener can have 5 clubs and 3 spades), as your partner suggested, although it seems a rather inefficient treatment. If it is merely COG, the 4NT bid from your partner is somewhat inconsistent. 2) 4♥ is a control bid. As partner's hand is unlimited, and 4♣ seems a strong bid, I think 4♥ by you is mandatory. 3) A typical beginner mistake is to bid 5N even if missing one keycard (it's like: I know we only have small slam, but since I don't get to bid 5NT often, this is my chance to fool around). But your partner did even worse than that. He shouldn't even bid 6♠ missing 1 keycard and trump Q, let alone trying for grand.

If all these boards came from the same partner, I would think he is below BBO-average level. But this is not too unexpected: although your expected value is BBO-average, there is variance in random processing, which means at least some portion of time you will get below-average partner.

After the lead, 13:13 no longer applies, there is just not this much room for hidden cards. When I said about random card, I am not using information on bidding and lead agreement. You can always rule out certain shape from the bidding, and the lead will also tell you something (if the lead is a low heart, even a beginner LHO probably wouldn't have AKQx in that suit). But strictly in terms of vacant space, after the opening lead and before RHO plays to the first trick, a particular unseen card can be anywhere among 12 remaining cards in LHO hand, or 13 remaining cards in RHO hand. Of course in reality it is not going to be 13:12, you always have clues in the bidding and lead. If you can rule out the possibility of RHO being void in hearts even before he plays to the first trick, you are back to 12:12. If you are certain that LHO has longer hearts than RHO, you will know that RHO is more likely to hold a specific card in a side suit.

Out of curiosity, what does 2♠ show, what is 1♦-2♥-3♦ in your system, and why is partner responding 5♠ (assuming 4NT is rkc in hearts)?

Thanks for the explanation Fred. It appears that this is also an indirect result of the success of BBO over years (16 tables per hand may make more sense in the earlier time than now). ;)

From partner's perspective, the bidding certainly indicates heart shortness in your hand. But as long as partner cannot be certain on its being void, it is hard to move toward slam. The bidding would be consistent with you having Kxxx, x, AKQJxx, xx

I think 3♥ shows general value (and denies 5+ good spades). It doesn't have to promise diamond fit (although often partner will have diamond tolerance). Since we haven't established a fit, it is more important to bid 3♠ to show my shape (also to uncover a possible spade fit) than to XX for 1st round control.

Neither did anything terribly wrong, although either could have pushed a little bit (and gets blame if the slam goes down). If you want to be scientific without changing existing structure below 4NT, one idea is to use 5-level suit to say "I have a reasonable 5-card suit but I need help". So for this hand it can go 1NT 4NT 5♦, partner bids 6NT (or 6♦ in imp) with diamond fit/honor, stop at 5NT without.

Actually yes, IF LHO picked a totally random card to lead, and that you need to make a decision right before RHO plays. After trick 1 is completed (assuming RHO follows heart), the vacant space is back to 12:12.

I can fully understand that BBO is open to all levels of players and that randomness is inevitable. But I am puzzled at why the sample size for each hand is just 16 tables. This is online game, and I presume modern computer programs can handle cross-scoring with virtually any field size. Maybe Fred will see this post and chime in. B)

I vaguely remember that someone on the forum also suggested same treatment: use 1D - 1S - 2H - 2S as GF with 5+ spades, 2NT followed by 3S as NF bid. I am sure it has advantage on some hands (so is the treatment for non-forcing 2S), but you won't be well placed with a weak hand, 5 spades, and tolerance to diamonds. 2S as one-round force is more flexible: if partner doesn't support spades, you can get out at 3♦. In a way this makes more sense, since when partner reverses, he is prepared for you to take preference to 3♦, but not necessarily 3♠ contract.

You can count the vacant space only when the suit distribution is clear. Suppose for one certain suit, opps have 8 cards, you play two rounds, both follow, you can't count this suit yet, because the distribution of this suit is still unclear. vacant space count can only be applied when the suit distribution is clear(or one card missing in your key suit). So for your example, the correct way to count vacant space is: LHO: 13-1(singleton) -3(three trumps)=9 RHO: 13-5(5 in that side suit) -1 (one trump) = 7 So it is 9:7 better to play finesse vs. dropping. I think the answer to the original question is: the x counts, so now it is 5 vs. 7. You always count the vacant space at the decision point, which is AFTER lho followed 2nd trump and BEFORE rho has played. When the side suit breaks 1-5, the vacant space is: LHO 8, RHO 6.

Does anyone know the answer to this question? What does the leap to the five level in an agreed suit mean? It seem to work akin to a grand slam force but GSF is 5N. Many thanks. I don't think this is a "convention". Rather, it is based on logic. When you leap to 5M in a constructive auction, it has to be a slam try, and it shows that you are concerned about *something* for the slam. The trick is figure out what this *something* is. In an uncontested sequence it is often about trump quality, since if you are worried about a specific side suit, you can find out by control cuebid. It can also be asking for control in an only unbid suit. In competitive auction, such as 1♥ (3♠) 5♥, it should be asking partner to bid slam with control in enemy (spade) suit (it follows that 1♥ (3[DP]) 4♠ is a slam try WITH spade control). That being said, I don't think it is right to bid 5♥ on this hand. You have more than one concern: club control, and trump quality. 5♥ might let you find out one but not both. Also, how good is "good"? ♥KQ certainly qualifies (but if partner has KQxxx you can easily miss a grand), what about QJxx? How about ♥J9xx and ♣K? To find out all the information you need, it is best to open an interactive dialog by bidding 3♠ or 4♦.

I think what you went through is about average/expected on BBO. Each hand is only scored across 16 tables out of a huge (tens of thousands of players) field, what is the chance that even one table would have gotten the bidding right? "How am I supposed to trust a pickup partner again"? The answer is, you are not supposed to. Assume nothing until you've played several hands together.

I do not think Fred said anything about trump length having been shown. Fred, would your rule also apply if we had 9 trumps and RHO had, say, opened a weak 2 and marked the distribution in a suit that way instead? (ie 6 opposite 4 = guess) I think what he meant was, at the time you played A and a second trump (and LHO followed low), LHO has shown up 3 trumps and RHO 1. At that point (RHO is yet to play), LHO showed 2 more trumps than RHO. That of course doesn't mean LHO actually holds 2 more trumps originally.

Strange lead. I see nothing with your line. I think I would play DK, DQ, HA, DA to my hand. Upon finding the unexpected diamond break, I play 3 more clubs, pitching 1S, 1H, 1D. Finding that LHO started with 5 cards in the minors, the indication is that he should have length in majors. Then I cash ♥K to guard against RHO holding Qx while still retaining the chance to finesse LHO's ♠Q (or a show-up squeeze if LHO has 5323 shape and I can somehow read it right). Unfortunately this doesn't go well with 5-1 heart break, but I still have a last chance of finessing LHO's ♠Q, just that the chance is only about 3/7. Unlucky.

Yep, PASS the bucket to partner, let him/her make the last mistake.

Double is too much. Opponents can easily have lots of spades between them. But lead is easy. We have all side suits locked. Trump lead is clear.

This sequence showcases the advantage of using 2nd-round jump bid by responder as game-force. However it makes 4th-suit-forcing ambiguous, which may create other problems on different hands, unless the partnership is prepared and thoroughly discussed this. For this reason, many players (including me, and I suspect same is true for many others on the forum) favor the simplicity and agree to play 4th suit GF. I think the OP's question is in this context: assuming you play 4sf to game and 3♥ rebid would have been invitational only, what is the best route to slam?

I think Han's structure is sometimes call the Romex Stayman structure. One thing I feel uncomfortable is 3NT not being natural. Playing "standard" puppet stayman, you can also adjust to use 2NT-3NT as 5S+4H hand, therefore covering 5-4 major types (with 4S+5H you'd transfer to H then bid 3S). In both treatments, a response of 3NT is not natural, and you would have to find another bid for natural 3NT raise (either going through 3♣, or use 3♠ as puppet to 3NT).

I disagree on #1 (and perhaps #2). The exact reason why 2NT 3♦ 3♥ 3♠ can be used to show 5-5 in majors, is due to the availability of smolen, hence no need to use two different sequences to show 4S + 5H. Although I don't think it is standard, it does make sense to me to use this sequence for 5-5 majors. The opener can bid 3NT with doubleton in either major, 4H/4S to show preference, or 4C/4D as a form of super-accept for H/S.

I would bid 3♦ after 3♣. But I also don't understand why South wants to commit to spade contract with weak spades and known 4-3 fit. How about: 1♦ -- 1♠ 2♥ -- 3NT 4♦ -- 5NT 6♦ 3NT shows 11-14, 5NT = pick-a-slam If your method requires 3♣ bid instead, then: 1♦ -- 1♠ 2♥ -- 3♣! 3♦ -- 4♦ 4♥ -- 4♠ 5♥ -- 6♣ 6♦

What? Are you saying RHO has BOTH ♥KQ and underled the hearts?

In case no one mentioned this: your initial plan before the double (bidding 1NT followed by 3♠) is already flawed. I would force to game with your hand with or without competition. But even if you feel like more conservative, at least try 3♠ limit raise, not 1NT then 3♠. As most have pointed out, after 1♠ (X), 4♠ shows a shapely hand with good trump support (often 5+) and few HCP (for some reason this standard treatment is rarely known among majority of BBO players). If you have a limit raise or better hand with 4+ trumps, start with artificial 2NT. A natural 2NT is not needed here, since with that hand you would start with XX.