There are the "laws"and everyone should respect them. My reason for calling the TD was the doubler's rudeness. Yes, he hesitated and yes we were getting a zero (deserved.) And we have all had a double that the Bank of England would back, but partner pulls it, because.... (many reasons) My point is that a "fast" double makes it clear that "I have my double" and a very very very slow double has the same affect. BTW, no ccard was posted and no mention of sayc was made (if that is relevant) The TD asked the doubler to say "yes" or "no" if he paused unusually long several times. Not only did the doubler say rude things but refused to answer "yes" or "no" ... The TD could give us the -800 (we were entitled to) but they did not play "partnership" .. it was dictatorship. If he was the "boss" in the partnership (as is sometimes the case) the long hesitation made it "clear" So some negative adjustment to these opponents was not unreasonable. I think the issue is not "the rule" that in sayc a double of 2 spades or higher is penalty, but with the hesitation, this partner could NOT over ride her partner's decision or the rule. This partner KNEW.. without a doubt that her partner 'had us' as indeed he did. Heck, even my mom would have known. She's the dealer on BBO. And if she doesn't like the way you've acted, she gives the Aces and Kings to your opponents.