JustaDummy

“A jump to 4♠ is terrible. I like 3♦>4♦.” (Cleverer than me because there is no explanation of why 4♠ is terrible - that’s OK for folks who are in the know, but not for beginners. A simple explanation would have removed my criticism) “We have a lucky agreement, which makes this one easy. 2NT for the fragment. Seems important to know whether we are mirrored in diamonds before we launch.” (Cleverer than me because I don’t know the language he/she is using - same argument as above). And almost every other post that I referred to, in varying degrees. But it’s no biggie. If BBO forums aren’t able to help at the basic level because things get too interesting at a higher level, I understand. But I just think that, for beginners (REAL beginners, if BBO actually believes its own hype), it would be helpful if someone in these posts would flag “Int” or “Adv” or something, so that I would know that this stuff is for absorbing later. You just cannot expect a beginner to differentiate! So as a rookie I’m left wondering what the hell to do about all this stuff. I had hoped that a Rookie’s forum, moderated as such, would add that kind of annotation. I know the field is populated with volunteers, and the effort is not insignificant, but otherwise the field becomes overgrown with mushrooms.

I get that. But I also get discouraged by wading through all the posts in this beginners' forum, trying to find something that I can understand and maybe use in a game. So is it not worthwhile to have a "complete beginners / newbies" forum where all the jargon can be introduced, just to help folks like me who have played a reasonable amount of bridge but don't have all the conventions, jargon, insights immediately to hand, and where we can go to get some of that? It just looks to me like the beginners and intermediates area is simply too much for real beginners. Don't get me wrong here. I actually do not consider myself a complete beginner. I have used ACOL, Precision, and now SAYC and have played in real, over-the-table duplicate matches. So not a complete rookie. But this stuff in this so-called beginners forum is just beyond me. I do of course recognise that this is my problem. And I have tried. I have scanned the posts here and been bemused by lots of them. Not encouraging at all. It always seems to me that I just do not know enough to be able to play this game. So I think that any Newbies forum would need to be heavily moderated! I absolutely know that lots of bridge experts know lost of stuff and want to help others to know lots of stuff too, which is just excellent, but I'm also sure that lots of folks like me just need a bit of an easing in, somehow. And this forum doesn't do that, which is why I plead for a moderated forum where some of the more advanced posts are removed, so as to help folks like me to focus on the essence. Any real teachers here? Users of this forum might then graduate, as they see fit, to the beginners / intermediates forum and take their chances, but in the meantime while in the Rookies forum, they might be introduced to some ideas, without the cleverer-than-you posts which I believe are too common here. Otherwise, this is just the Internet, right?

Wow! Thank you Mikeh. I have d/led your post for further study - but is this all basic? I worry about that. I don't want to spend more time studying than playing…

Well, I didn’t get most of that. It’s the language, I think - although the bridge may also be beyond me. Is this not meant to be a beginner/intermediate forum, or am I just thick? For example I’ve never heard of Michaels cue bid. (post 1) What is a “dive?” (post 2) Why is South raising diamonds with a singleton? (post 3) What is a fragment, or mirrored? (post 4) What is a FP? (post 8) If it’s “forcing pass”, what is that? (post 9) Do I have to go away and learn lots of extra stuff like this before I can be classed as a beginner? Or should I just go away?

Thank you, Barry, that worked.

Thank you :D

I tried that. I replied to the automated message but changed the sender's email address to another address I use for general emails, and the email bounced, this time because the sender address was not the same as the original recipient address. I'll have to resend the original abuse report using a more acceptable email address. This sucks, sorry. How can a system send an automated "please reply" message to an email address from which it will not accept a response?

What are Cayne matches? Are you referring to matches involving jec?

It isn't a bridgebase email address! Why should the system care what appears before the @? That is surely elective on behalf of the owner of the email address. I do that with all my web affiliations, to identify sources of spam. So if that mailbox gets spam, since I only ever use that email address in connection with BBO, then I can complain to BBO as the source of the spam. I will not change that. The bottom line: will my notification of abuse get through?

Nothing can excuse that behaviour. And what you and I both know is that when I commented on the abuse after the target of the abuse had logged off (and no wonder), the abuser started accusing me of spying, and asked why I was kibbing.

Sure, and thanks for trying to help! Looking at the error message it denies validity of my email address. Is that because I use "bridgebaseonline" in my email address? I do that to identify sources of spam. === This is the mail system at host mail1.bridgebase.com. I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below. For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster. If you do so, please include this problem report. You can delete your own text from the attached returned message. The mail system <rtv_abuse@rt.bridgebase.com>: Command died with status 255: "/usr/local/bin/bbocsrt_validate.pl abuse". Command output: Error 9.0 Invalid from field Alistair Thomson <act.bridgebaseonline@gmail.com> at /usr/local/bin/bbocsrt_validate.pl line 82, <STDIN> line 80. Reporting-MTA: dns; mail1.bridgebase.com X-Postfix-Queue-ID: CC24F18075 X-Postfix-Sender: rfc822; act.bridgebaseonline@gmail.com Arrival-Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2012 21:21:24 -0600 (CST) Final-Recipient: rfc822; rtv_abuse@rt.bridgebase.com Original-Recipient: rfc822;rtv_abuse@rt.bridgebase.com Action: failed Status: 5.3.0 Diagnostic-Code: x-unix; Error 9.0 Invalid from field Alistair Thomson <act.bridgebaseonline@gmail.com> at /usr/local/bin/bbocsrt_validate.pl line 82, <STDIN> line 80. From: Alistair Thomson <act.bridgebaseonline@gmail.com> Date: February 4, 2012 10:21:16 PM EST To: rtv_abuse@rt.bridgebase.com Subject: Re: BBO: Please validate {BBOT#13284110650.233686779932217#TOBB} On 2012-02-04, at 10:04 PM, Bridge Base Online wrote: Hello. This is an automated email from Bridge Base Online in response to your recent email. Please ignore this email if you have not sent us anything recently. Please reply to this message to validate your request for support from Bridge Base Online. When doing so, please do not alter the subject line in any way. Your reply will not be seen by a human. Our apologies for this inconvenience. We receive a tremendous amount of spam, and your cooperation will help us deal with it. Subject: {BBOT#13284110650.233686779932217#TOBB}

Nope. My email to Abuse (sorry about my earlier typo) was received. It was the anti-spam system which required me to reply to an automated message, sent in response to my email to abuse@, which didn't work. The reply I sent bounced. Twice. And you are right - I did outline that more clearly in the other thread.

I kib a lot, in order to learn. I like to compare my own playing intentions to those at the table, since I know that they are generally more expert than I. So I watch tables much more often than I play. I'm grateful to BBO that I can do that. But sometimes, actually really quite often, I find that chat comments are abusive to the other players at the table. I'll give you two examples, taken from two logins to BBO just yesterday and today. In the first, the table Queen wanted to remove a player because she was playing more slowly that the host preferred. In the other, the abuser impugned not only the bidder but the whole Nation from which the bidder came. Let's be clear here - I don't spend much time on BBO, but nonetheless both of these situations arose within ten minutes of my logging in. It seems that every time I log in and choose a Main Bridge Room table at random to watch, I see this abuse. Well, this is surely an issue for BBO to address. And they have abuse@bridgebase.com so that we can report this kind of inappropriate activity whenever we see it. But that system is broken. So it seems that anyone at any table can hurl abuse at anyone else at the table and at their nationalities and who knows what else, and nothing will happen. That is totally unacceptable to me. Does anyone else care? Is it just me? Here are the screenshots I took. I hid the identities of those responsible, to protect the guilty. I'm sure that if I hadn't done that, this post would be deleted. That may still happen. And there is no point in my forwarding the second of these images to abues@bridgebase.com. I sent the first, and that is why I know that the system is broken. http://i40.tinypic.com/2rgz6vd.png http://i44.tinypic.com/15nnlf8.png

I tried that yesterday, when I kibbed a player abusing another player. I got an automated message saying that I should reply without changing the subject line, as a spam fitering procedure. I did that. The email bounced. I tried twice, the second time removing the "Re: " which my mail app automatically prefaces the Subject with. It bounced again. I've sent a copy of the bounce message to postmaster@bridgebase.com but I have no faith that anything will happen. Meanwhile, my message to abuse@ has gone unnoticed…

Thanks. I'll take a look.

While Kibitzing, I watch the chat, because that is sometimes very informative about what the players think about a particular contract or play. But if the chat is in Serbo-Croat, I'm lost. So I want to kib hands where the players have a good chance of speaking English. Or French, which I can follow not too badly. I can make a stab at understanding conversations in Italian, Spanish and German, but I absolutely do not want to spend my one braincell in translation tasks. That is not why I'm on BBO. I often find that I have to seek another table once the discussion starts. I think that this kind of focused discussion is a key to learning. So I just want to understand that discussion. Is it not possible to place, in the open or full tables view, at the righthand end of each Name field, a small icon showing the national flag as posted in the player's profile? Or are these screens already too busy? Or is it just that this idea is politically non-PC? I'm not Chauvinistic, and I hope that BBO doesn't label me and others with that. I simply need to understand the chat at the table. I just need help in choosing tables which will help me with that.

Thanks all! My lack of familiarity with the software… I didn't know about the right-click option nor about the table rotation. Problem solved! :D

I use the Flash app. I have to, because I use the Mac exclusively. I watch a lot. No, a LOT! A bit like Peter Sellers in "Being There." I'm trying to learn more, so I Kibbitz. I habitually Kib South, and bid and play along. But it irks me that, for every table I Kib, I have to go Options>More options>Advanced options> Kibbitz South every freaking time. I know that the Flash app can't save prefs, but a couple of buttons tucked away somewhere in the screen real estate would make life better for me on BBO. Otherwise, LOVE the software!

Well I've played live bridge for years and enjoyed it (in the UK, Precision mainly) and now "over here" in Canada I'm hoping to get back into the game. Online to start, then maybe join a club. So I joined BBO, and have subscribed to the forums, but, well, folks, if this particular forum "Beginner and Intermediate" is for beginners, then I'm outta here. I just don't get it. Is my Bridge knowledge so poor that I just can't get into this forum? I think, maybe, this may well be the case, because ALL of the posts here, supposedly for beginners, just simply lose me. OK for intermediates too, but is there such a gap? Maybe so, in which case, let's have a beginners only forum please! But my point here is that I'm NOT a beginner! You see, when I kibbitz on almost any hand on the BBO tables, I can anticipate what the play should be, and more often than not, when a hand goes down, I know why. Is there some sort of discontinuity going on here? I know I'm not a great player, but I have played a few times on BBO and managed to perform OK. However, when it comes to this forum, I'm just lost. Of course I know that Bridge can be very complex, but surely if I'm looking for support and satisfaction as a beginner or intermediate I should be able to read some of the posts in this forum and say, yes, I think that's right, I understand that, or hmm, maybe there's something I need to know there. But it just doesn't happen. It's all gobbledygook. It looks like the learning curve is too steep for me in this forum. And I know I'm not stupid. And I shudder to think what kinds of esoterica are paraded around the advanced forum… So, what do I do? Leave? Suggest a Total-Nincompoop-Newbie-Don't-Mention-Esoterica forum where basic ideas can be thrashed out until I, and possibly others, can get a grip on them? Or should I just take up crochet? ;)