bglover

You have an unlimted explanation box available... its the 'chat to opps' option. Control O opens a chat where your message goes just to your opponenets So, you can make your bid after you tell them "alert!" and the explanaiton for your bid. Simple!

Thank you for your kind words Maureen. We appreciate it. I can honestly tell you that I have had an exhausting last few days. I lacked many email addresses, many more were wrong and many emails never went through. It has taken a lot of work to get people aware of the club, although once they have heard about it the response has been nearly universally positive. There is much much more work to be done. We haven't contacted even half of BBO's stars yet. But we are confident the efforts will pay off. I would like to take this oppourtunity to make a special thanks to the people we have recruited to speak with foreign- speaking stars on our behalf. Farfie and Ritong spoke to the French Stars for us and Rado has been handling the Bulgarian Stars. We have just recruited an Italian but his name now escapes me. Without these people we could never accomplish our goal. Jols. Ece and myself are more grateful than they could even imagine. A hearty thanks to them!

Just a happy note: I have been talking to some of BBO's better commentators and have mentioned that we would love it if they joined in and did it at our tourneys. So far, everyone has said they would enjoy the opportunity very much.

Well, the title says it all... It is for gold stars. We did not make a determination who deserved one and perhaps a few people with gold stars should not have them... That is not for us to decide. If they have a gold star (i.e., in the eyes of BBO they have a significant accomplishment that makes them noteworthy) then they are eligible to join. We did not set the "gold star" criteria, we simply assume that if someone has one they are (or should be) one of the best players on BBO. Now, stars are able to bring in non-star players if they so choose. They do not have to, but they may. So, not everyone will have a star, but most will. If it turns out we need more members to have tourneys, then perhaps we will have to allow in non star players. We haven't gone this far (honestly we hope we do not have to-- between invited guests and the people they bring with them we hope to have enough players), but if we do open it up, the only players who would get in would be players who have also some sort of significant success in the world of bridge. Heck, I can't play in the club and I'm a fair player. But I am not a gold star and the biggest thing I ever won was a few regionals. None of the founders can play (maybe fill out a table in desparation). So, the criteria is "strict" but that criteria, in a sense, was set by BBO.

Well, Edvin, if the only time these people spent were playing our tourneys they wouldn't be getting much practice time in. But, Top Flight will offer our members to spend SOME of their practice time simulating the rigors of what they can expect in f2f competitions. Think about this: Most people set up a table with their partner and play 20-25 hands vs. one set of opponents. This is fine but doesn't really go far enough. If you are here to practice your game (as opposed to playing for fun or friendship) wouldn't you be better served playing against several opponents? Sure you would. Now, the best players are significantly better usually than average players. If they want to come to BBO to practice, they must create a table and find one competitive pair. Since the better players know one another (many are friends with each other) this may not be a problem, but the entire practice time will likely be spent against just that one pair only. Sure, they could enter one of the many BBO tourneys open to the general population, but that isn't really good practice. The competition is too variable. Top Flight tourneys will give them a chance to use their practice time more efficiently. If things go as we expect, Top Flight will give the better players even more reason to come to BBO to play. That means you will have even more "stars" here on a regular basis to potentially play with even on days we are not running tourneys. You can certainly argue that all clubs are polarizing to a certain extent, but our club will be relative small. Even if it does not turn out that we attract more star players to BBO (and it would surprise me if we do not) we will CERTAINLY draw more people here to watch our tourneys. That means you will have even more people to play with. I guess anyone can find a reason to complain about anything. It saddens me that people might try and take something like this-- meant as a way to promote BBO to the bridge world and to help attract even better players here-- and attach some hidden evil meaning to it. But, in the main, the response, both from the star players, and from the general population, has been enormously positive. It is too bad it isn't unananimous, because I truly believe everyone will benefit, but ultimately I guess the proof will be in the pudding.

I love the commentary idea and we do hope that members not playing that nite show up and kib... However, I am not going to ask people to commit to commenting. But I do hope they choose to. Keep in mind that there are going to be several tables running if it is not a team match... So We would need several commentators as well. Now, there are many people on BBO, such as CSIjak, who comment for VG shows but do not have gold stars. Perhaps they would like to add comments when tourneys are going on. Certainly if I am not directing I would be glad to help in doing commenting (and cracking jokes) but I don't know if I can promise we will have commentary. Best guess is that enough tables will draw enough kibbies that it is likely there will be good commentors following different pairs and that the commentary will naturally arise out of that.

Top Flight is not directly associated with BBO. We are an independent club that is striving to bring great players and great kibbitzing opportunities to our beloved site. Therefore, Claus, no BBO resouces are being used to run Top Flight beyond the normal tourney facilities. Although we sincerely hope that Fred, Uday and Sheri participate in our events, the club itself is not theirs. The managers of Top Flight are doing this to help promote good bridge on the internet and BBO as well, but we are in no way directly affiliated with BBO. Thank you for allowing me to clarify this point. Steve

Thank you for allowing me to clear up a misconception that perhaps others had as well. Although the announcement only went out 10 hours ago, already we have received a large number of responses that has included some of the top partnerships in the world. We are truly excited by this concept and the potential it has to create a new experience for both BBO members and the players themselves. Perhaps new world class partnerships will be formed here on BBO in front of our own eyes. Certainly kibbitzers can expect to see, on an ongoing basis, some of the best bridge being played in the world at that very moment. Everyone benefits. The players; the spectators and BBO too. It's all good. I hope you all come join us, either as players (if you qualify) or as spectators. A good time will be had by all.

You could not be more wrong. The private club area indeed does not allow kibbers in without permissions but there is absolutely no requirement that tourneys be run in the club room. BBO's sofware allows us to run our tourneys in the regular area and restrict entries to ONLY club members. Members may run their own private tourneys either in the club area or openly, but all TOP FLIGHT events that the managers run will be in the open area. We view TOP FLIGHT as a way to promote BBO to the rest of the Bridge world and would never run our tourneys in such a way as to deprive the rest of the public from seeing our players in action. That would be, in a sense, self defeating. We probably will turn off kib chat to the table, but I think you can understand that is a wise decision. We wouldn't want stray comments hitting the table. Thank you for allowing me to correct a misconception that you (and perhaps others) have. You are misinformed so let me assure you we welcome kibbitzers and hope they will help us spread the word about the great opportunity TOP FLIGHT will afford them in watching the world's best compete on BBO.

TOP FLIGHT "Where BBO's Elite Meet to Compete" ANNOUNCING BBO'S 1ST CLUB EXCLUSIVELY FOR WORLD CLASS PLAYERS We are proud to announce the opening of the first intenet bridge club designed especially for world class players only! This club is only open to BBO Gold Stars! The new TOP FLIGHT Club has been developed with you, the world class player, in mind. As a member, you will have the opportunity to play regularly scheduled tournaments online against other world class players. For the first time, you will be able to use an online facility to simulate the rigors of real Super Flight tournaments on an ongoing basis. TOP FLIGHT is the perfect place to try out new systems on different opponents or just get quality practice in for that next big match with your favorite partner. TOP FLIGHT affords you the opportunity to play round after round of world class bridge against different world class competitors on a regularly scheduled basis. Because membership is strictly limited to the very best players the world has to offer, you will be able to finally use the internet as a real tool to practice and compete against various opponents of a similar caliber. There are no fees for joining. All you need to do to become a member is tell one of the club managers (2over1, Ecepal, Doofik or Slothy). Chances are, your favorite partner has been invited also. If he or she has not, please let us know. The only thing we ask is that you actually play our tourneys. (Because TOP FLIGHT is a players club, people who do not use it may be asked to leave to make room for a new member.) Since its your club we want to make sure you have a great TOP FLIGHT experience. Feel free to make suggestions so we can help make TOP FLIGHT the place you want to play. Sincerely Steve (2over1), Jola (doofik), Alex (slothy) and Ece (ecepal) P.S. When responding please include your BBO user name

No my idea was not that it be part of BBO per se... but that people could purchase it. It would geneate a .txt file that the bidder would then cut/paste into chat. It would be a small relatioship database (if i bid x and partner bids y response then z explanation is generated). This program would be used with any bridge product this way. Incorporating it into BBO's code I'm sure would complicate it well beyond a simple addition to the SW here.

I am not a programmer so I have NO IDEA if this is feasible but... How hard would it be to develop a small program that generates an alert with explanation and suggested defenses. My thinking is that people playing artificial systems such as ultimate club or moscito could load this program beforehand and then cut/paste the generated alerts into BBO's alert box (or chat to opps) after making their bids. Seems to me this would not be a very complicated program for most systems and might make life a tad easier. For a system like Moscito (what little I understand of it) you would only need to handle the first two levels of bidding with this and anything past the 2 level can be typed into the alert box. Maybe some programmer could write such a thing and make it available/sell it for a small fee and we could go a long way towards making headway here.

Well there is nothing wrong with having a general system approach in your profile.... I always get a big kick when someone I don't know asks me which system I prefer (Trust me it happens OFTEN) and I just list my preferred conventions in my profile. I find this solution to be practical as hell.. When someone sits down with me I say "look at my profile and tell me what you want to change... I'm flexible" and the entire discussion takes 1 minute. I wish more people took my approach but thats me. Also, I use the notes feature to keep track of whatever changes a partner prefers making so I can remember next time. As soon as people sit down to play vs. us I tell them we are playing my profile plus/except whatever conventions we have added or changed.

Well.. only one comment here... That hand is an average to average plus vul 3 level preempt... I would never open that 4 vully but thats me. Remember my initial post on saying my vul preempts are done with very good hands with 8 card suits. Given that you would open that hand 4 I would substantially change my answer, as that hand (or close to it) is what I preempt 3 on vul. So, my answer actually has no bearing now, as I need a significantly better hand to open 4 than this one I (another ace on the outside if it's only a 7 bagger as here).

Both Inquiry and Bolo make great points but... If you just shoot six you will make a SIGNIFICANT amount of the time because the opponents are in the dark as to which suit is best to lead. Sure, some of the time opening leader is holding the AK of clubs and you are going to be down but if his holding is Kx or Kxx he is likely to lead some other suit and if he does you will pretty much always make 6 or 7 on this hand. I am defintely known as agressive so take what I say with that in mind. But I guess you will make 6 at least 60% of the time by just jumping there directly... I would be willing to risk it with your hand. (And with your club holding and only 5 unknown cards in partner's hand you aren't going to have 2 fast club losers that often anyway). OTOH, bidding it my way will also prevent you from finding a makeable grand. This is the downside to my method and should not be ignored... Depends on your style I guess.

Partner should have a very good hand... Your queen is a golden card... I would probably shoot 6 and pray we dont have 2 fast club losers. This brings up an interesting point regarding vul vs. nonvul 4 level preempts. Some (me included) play that a vul 4 level major preempt is a very good hand and that a 4 level nonvul could be any 8 card suit and hand quality isn't much of an issue otherwise. If partner doesn't open sound 4 level preempts vul then you are in a pickle. If you played with me you could shoot 6 without much fear of going for a number.

And, an apology to Richard and Ron... My intention in bringing you two into the discussion was to illustrate 2 points: That over-disclosure through the posting of extensive notes was not the right solution either and that to expect to transfer the onus to your opponents in a timed event in that fashion was unreasonable. I apologize to both of you if I implied in any way that you were being unethical. That was not my intent in the least.

Free's example would be of a similar nature to what actually occurred and could be the starting point for discussion. Clearly, things would have resulted differently had he not merely alerted but also explained why he alerted. Now, to me, this was not a well-earned top. Perhaps technically within the rule of bridge but that doesn't make it "right" (doesn't make it wrong either... that's why I started this thread before we got sidetracked). Or, are most people like Bhugi and take the time to give an explanation? I personally don't think that online bridge should be thought of in the same light as f2f. My guess is that many online players rarely if ever even step into a bridge club and may not know to ask why a 2 bid was alerted. They probably assumed a "normal" weak 2 and it never occurred to ask at all. This is kinda the essence of why I started this thread.

Jeez... you really want me to compare a failure by people to alert a bid you fully understand to be a weak 2 (because you see it everyday 100 times and know exactly what it is) vs. the multi-coded meanings of virtually all low-level bids in moscito that virtually no one you play with here has any idea what they mean?? I won't insult you the way you just insulted me. I gave you more credit than perhaps you deserve. Perhaps you spoke out of anger and didn't think. I don't know. I don't care. But Richard gave an explanation as to why he didn't type everything out so your own argument is specious at best.... Next time think before you lash out at me... And I was entirely fair in pointing out the director calls stopped after I "yawned" about the given method you were trying to impose on opponents in lieu of writing out everything. Finally, the reason I didn't mention your names specifically was because I wasn't trying to pick on you... rather to show the extremes.... Do you think I am mealy mouthing the guy who didn't type in the explanation (which was the point of this thread I had hoped). Rather than try to defend yourselves for what you do why not address the issue I brought up? Which was do you think full ADVANCED disclosure of alerts is better than waiting for someone to ASK. Interesting neither of you addressed that point.

I was not bitching about you. Rather I was making a general point to expect people to go through lengthy notes to absolve you from the need to explain all your artificial bids was an inappropriate solution. You cannot and should not put that type of pressure on your opponents... I didn't say "don't play your system" I said THOROUGHLY EXPLAIN EVERY BID. And, if you choose to ever play in one of my tourneys I would tell you the same thing again. I agree about the CC issue. Since it isn't a reality you have to live with the current system. And your expectation that people pour through your notes rather than you and your partner thoroughly explain each and every unnatural bid does not hold an ounce of water in my estimation. But the real point to all that is that you cannot expect people to make incredibly special efforts just to accomodate you and your partners... It should be the other way around in the interest of full AND fair disclosure. If you were playing that system in a nationally ranked game you would be required to disclose the system and its defenses in SIGNIFICANT advance of the tourney itself so that people can prepare for it. This ain't the Bermuda Bowl. This is a place where people come to have fun. If you want to play Mosicto I have no problem. I have a GIGANTIC problem if you expect ALL THE OTHER UNKNOLWEDGABLE participants to learn it quickly from 12 pages of notes in a timed event... Just explain the bids (And, for all the readers of this post... in fairness... I never got another call against Richard once I told him to explain every bid thoroughly or be penalized).

A common complaint is that people do not alert their bids. When I run my touneys I tell people that failure to alert will result in a lowering of their scores. This is not new stuff I know, but I was just having a discussion with someone who got banned last week from another director's tourney. The opponents claimed he did not alert a bid and it resulted in a bad score. It so happens I was codirecting at the time the hand was played and saw it as it happened. He did, in fact, click the alert box but did NOT offer an explanation. He agrees that was the case. (FWIW his bid was HIGHLY UNUSUAL....not a transfer or other common treatment.) I went on to tell him that I thought he was not blameless because altho he did alert he never explained. His response was, of course, welll they never asked. When I am playing and make even a quasi-unusual bid I immediately explain it in the box for the opponents. I think this is the ethical thing to do in online bridge. But that is me (I won't usually explain transfers as I expect most people know that 1n 2h is an xfer, the alert is enough). There is the other side of this coin... A certain pair (you know who you are) play an extremely complicated system that has 12 pages of notes that they post before tourneys. Whenver someone sits at their table they give them the URL and tell them to read the notes. This is, of course, silly on its face... In a clocked event to put that type of pressure on everyone is beyond and above the call of duty. When I directed this pair... they showed me the URL to impress me with their disclosure.... My response was a giant yawn and warning: Explain every bid thoroughly or I will severely reduce your score. Maybe my approach is not as "normal" as I think. I would never just click the alert box on a highly unusual treatment and "wait for them to ask." In my mind that would be a form of unethical conduct although perhaps not outright cheating. How do others treat alerts of highly unusual bids?

I have a general rule regarding psyches... Shoot partner if he psyches in 1st seat... Good rule to follow trust me.

This replay is to Luke only. While I agree the other bids you mentioned MIGHT have been used ; this hand cares about exactly one thing and one only...How many aces does partner have? If he has 1 the limit is going to be 4 if he has 2 the limit is going to be 5 etc. unless he has a void (which is likely to be in hearts as thats the opponents' suit). Frankly, I cannot fathom why you (or anyone) would choose any bid here BUT the ask. It is impossible to have 2 losers on any sort or "normal" distributions if partner has 3 aces given the bidding. I think my opponent was (a) making a joke regarding this hand and (:) making an observation as Ben pointed out.

This AM picked up this beauty: kqxxx kx kqjxx k Partner opens 1S, RHO bids 2h I bid 4n etc. reaching 6S which is cold. After hand, my opp (a good friend and a great player) said to me "You use blackwood too much." Perhaps he was making a joke and I am thick headed, but if ever a hand was made for blackwood this is it... What am I missing?

Back to my original hand (the one that started this thread). The opener did actually rebid 1S at the table. His partner leapt to 4s. on a hand that looked something like this (been a week now so it isnt exact but close) Kxxx xx Ajxxx kq I know ive got the shape and HCPs close enough to be right. What do you bid if the bidding has gone 1d 1h x 1n now?