elwood913

Hi - I recently finished my challenges against hrothgar and dadim. However, I closed the link and I haven't received a mail about the results :( If either of you have the link, can you please post it. (fwiw my memory is that I lost to dadim by 50 (yikes!) and won small over hrothgar, 12 I think) I just reissued my challenge to manudue03

I'd like to play, pls

I haven't posted in a while, but this made me perk up a bit. Get over yourself you fool. If you actually mean that you don't attend events because you can't be bothered to bring a convention card, you're a complete tool. If you just want us to think you're that cool, well, you're a complete tool.

I would have bid 3. I guess I'm putting myself out there as weak. So be it. Can you give me some insights why 4 is better than 3? Just because we have 8? I have poor trumps, equal vul, and two little spades, so I feel 3 is good enough, let it do it's work - maybe they get too high, to low, maybe I make...

I want to incorporate Kokish into my 2♣ strong artificial opening structure. I looked around and was surprised to find little agreement about a standard for this bid. The good players I asked at the club, and the sources I found online, varied significantly in their understanding of both Opener's bids to show different big NT ranges and Responder's options at different stages in the auction. So, I have a few questions: 1) Is there any standard? If two expert players sit down and agree to play Kokish without any further discussion would there be one set of bids and responses that they could rightly say they have agreed to play? If so, what is it? 2) The most common structures I found had Opener bidding increasingly bigger bids to describe incrementally more HCP. Something like: 2♣ - 2♦ - 2NT = 22-23 2♣ - 2♦ - 2♥ - 2♠ - 2NT = 24-25 2♣ - 2♦ - 3NT = 26-27 2♣ - 2♦ - 2♥ - 2♠ - 3NT = 28-29 2♣ - 2♦ - 4NT = ??? etc... I found this disappointing. I thought the whole point of Kokish was to keep from having to blast 3NT with our biggest hands, depriving our side of room and system tools to explore for slam (or even proper game strain). Sure, this structure grabs a few more HCP into the range where you can bid 2 NT instead of 3NT, but above 25 or so HCP Opener is stuck with an unwieldy 3NT. Is that as good as it gets? Or is there a workable structure where all Opener's big NT hands rebid a Kokish 2NT, showing something like 24+ or 25+, unlimited, and we work out the strength later on? 2.1) If the answer is "Yes, opener can show 24+ or 25+, unlimited, and work out his strength later," Great! - that's what I was hoping for... How's it work? How does Responder bid to account for the added uncertainty of not knowing how high he ultimately wants to be? And how does Opener show extras later if he has them? 2.2) If you answer "No, it is too hard to work out strength later if Opener leaves his NT range unlimited - It is best to get his range out right away, bidding 3NT (or higher) if need be," What system do you use over 3NT (or even 4NT) to try to bid our slams, or get to the right game strain? 3) What ranges are best? I found 2♣ - 2♦ - 2NT showing both 22-23 and 22-24 common. Also the Kokish bids, when showing specific ranges, varied between 2- and 3-point ranges. Is one method clearly best, or do they all have pros and cons and you can choose according to partnership style/preference? Also, after 2♣ - 2♥* (double neg) what does Opener need to bid 3NT? 4) What are Responder's options after 2♣ - 2♦ - 2♥? Must he bid 2♠, or can he break the relay to show certain specific hand types? I found quite a few different methods here, so I expect there is no standard structure - anyone out there have a favorite? Thanks! Bill

We lose a little here, because our 1♦has to include all unbalanced hands with ♦'s, hence we play it 11+, typically 5+♦ and an unbalanced hand. Balanced hands with ♦'s open weak NT or 1♣. So we have to choose at first bid how we want to describe the hand and will often lose the diamonds if we go the balanced route. Opener's rebid is a little trickier due to the wider range, since p is still forced to bid, but in most cases we can describe our range either 11-14, 15-17, or 18+ and get out our level of support for p or our second suit.

I play a fantunes style where: 1M is always 14+ 2M is 10-13, any 6+ or 5+ w/ 4+ in a minor (but not some 5422) 2♦ is both M's. Typically 10-13, any distribution 5+/4+ in the M's (though 12-14, 4-4(41) is possible). The given hand would fit perfectly into this opening. We get some of our best results with the 2♦ bid. If Resp has enough to ask we can find out about opener's specific distribution and strength, and these auctions are very good. If they don't, we often land in a reasonable 2M partscore and have enjoyed quite a bit of preemption. The overall effect is great. We get a few rotten scores, but the good games and slams, the wins in many partscore battles, and the relatively safe premptive effect when it's their hand far outweigh the few clunkers.

Thank you Frances, I appreciate your thoughtful response. What you say about the reverse being normal when responder has bid and showed some values, but non-forcing when he hasn't makes sense. I have an additional wrinlkle, though... I'm playing a system where all 1-level suit openings are unlimited (Fantunes style). Given that the opener might have a game force or near game force in his hand, he needs a way to force responder to bid in these auctions. Should I just cue-bid here? Or X and then bid my second suit? They both seem to have their issues -- If I reopen with a X p may convert to penalties when I'm bidding on a very offensive oriented 2-suiter, and if I cue bid the auction is going to be quite high before I ever mention my second suit. Maybe that's just the price I have to pay for emplying this style of opening bid...

Hi, Thanks for the response. I understand Doubling is the more flexible and often preferable reopening move. Perhaps I clouded the issue by giving an example hand and saying wouldn't you want to bid a reverse with this. Here's a more succinct way of asking my questions -- When opener does make a reverse in competition, what is he showing? A standard reverse? --or has the competitive nature of the auction changed his requirements at all (leading perhaps to the desire to allow reverse bids with weaker 2-suited holdings)? In those example bidding sequences, what hand is opener showing with the reverse? Whatever Opener's reverse shows, how, if at all, do you have to/would you want to modify responder's conventional weakness-showing bids? Thanks again!

Hi, Rules question here, I'm in ACBL land. After the auction is over, if a defender asks about one of declarer's bids, is it still necessary to ask the dummy? Or is it ok to ask the declarer? Seems to me there is no risk of giving the dummy any UI, so why not just ask the declarer? Nobody seems to like it much if I do this, lol. I'm not overly familiar with the ACBL rulebook, but I just read what seem to be the most relevant Sections and found one place (Law 20 F1 and F2) where it was pretty clear you're still supposed to ask the dummy about declarer's bids. I guess I'm hoping I missed something in the Laws, and that it's okay to ask the declarer about his bids. I'm not sure why I'm hoping this, it just seems sensible to me. If indeed the rules prohibit asking the declarer, anyone have any idea why? I ran through a couple scenarios in my head about who might have forgotten a convention and what it would mean if one person said a bid was x, and the other piped up and said it was y, and would you have more or less information if the dummy first said what they thought the bid was and was later corrected by the declarer, etc., etc., and then I got dizzy and thought I'd ask all you nice folks. Thanks

Hi all, I've been away from the forums for a while, good to see many familiar faces. I read the reverse primer but didn't see any mention of what happens when the opponents are in the mix, so I thought I'd post a new topic. What effect does opponent's bidding have on the meaning of opener's reverses, and is it standard to play the same methods in response to a reverse? Here are a few example sequences for what I have in mind. They vary somewhat in what responder has already shown or denied, but I'm trying to get an idea of a general rule for what does and doesn't change in our understanding of reverses when in competition... 1♣ - (1♦) - 1♠ - (P) / 2♥ 1♦ - (1♠) - P - (P) / 2♥ 1♦ - (2♥) - P - (P) / 2♠ , and maybe even 1♦ - (P) - P - (1♠) / 2♥ The last is a little different, but in the others Responder can still have a fairly wide range of hand strength. So, 2 questions -- In general, is opener still showing a standard reverse here. Or, especially in the hands in which responder has passed, might he only be describing a hand willing to compete but not necesarily as strong as a typical reverse. Take the third sequence for example -- After 1♦ - (2♥) - P - (P) you hold KQxx - x -AQJxxx - Kx. Wouldn't you like to bid a non-forcing 2S, though you're not really strong enough for a reverse? P might hold 4 spades without enough strength to get in over 2H, or a few diamonds not quite long enough or not quite strong enough to bid at his first turn. You bid 2♠ and find a good spot when P has one of those hands, and you cross your fingers and hope to land on your feet when he doesn't. Presumably then stronger hands would X first or Cue or something. And then, how should responder proceed? Assuming the opener is showing a standard reverse, does responder use the same methods (where they are available to him)? So -- If you play Lebensohl-like responses, will 2NT still be the weak bid with 3-level bids showing strength that responder hasn't been able to express yet? Or has the competition too often changed responders options that he has to avail himself of something else? Finally, if opener might be showing a weaker hand, what do responder's bids mean then? Thanks!

This hand came up recently at the club... After RHO opens 1H, none vulnerable, how should you bid this hand? [hv=pc=n&n=sak2hakjt32dca432]133|100[/hv] The bid that most naturally fits in to my system is to Pass and bid hearts at your next bid, but with this strength I'm afraid you won't have a next bid. Next choice is to X and then jump in a new suit to show a big hand and a self-sufficient suit. If you switch the spades and the hearts, X then 3S seems like it would describe this hand. But X - 3H? Since the suit I am jumping in is the opp's major, can I expect p to believe this? Or should that show a splinter in support of whatever suit p has chosen to bid? To put my questions succinctly: Does X and rebid 3H show this hand? If not, is there a normal systematic way to show a major and a strong hand after your RHO opens in it? If not, what would you do? Also, should you be more interested in playing in hearts or investigating NT?

I am a relatively new player and do not specialize in knowing the laws. Still, I think that the responses to this post are getting a fundamental issue wrong, so I thought I'd post. Let me see if I understand the situation correctly. E/W do play flannery. E opened 2D mistakenly (he doesn't have a flannery opening, he forgot they played flannery, and he intended the 2D bid to have some other meaning). West correctly alerted and explained the 2D bid as flannery, in accordance with their agreements. This woke up E to his mistake. (E made a face, but since only S saw it it had no influence on the auction.) This occurs in ACBL-land. It is my understanding that E is entitled to be "woken up" by a correct alert and/or explanation, and that this does not constitute UI. A correct explanation of the partnership's agreements can remind a player of those agreements and he can act on this knowledge in all further bidding without penalty -- it is not UI. The palyer who misbid must alert and explain his partner's bids as responses to flannery, but does not need to continue to bid his hand as if he doesn't know the meaning of his partner's bids, or as if his own hand is something that it isn't. He may full well consider that he has made an error, and continue the auction taking that information and its likely effects on his partner into account, without penaly. If he can come up with some bids that "expose his misbid," then his partner is entitled to realize that the bid was a misbid and take all of the implications of that into account, all without penalty. (For example, if E simply continues to rebid diamonds, bids that have no place in the flannery system, his partner may correctlly determine that he actually has diamonds and act on this determination.) The only possible place I see for UI here is if E tipped off his mistake to his partner in an unauthorized way - making a face his partner saw, or failing to alert his partner's bids as if they were responses to flannery. In that case W has UI. Also, alerts and explanations of future bids may be difficult and may have to be handled delicately. But there is not UI passed in a correct and proper explanation of your actual agreements -- it is simply not the case that E has any UI here.

If 3-level bids are forcing, what doyou do with this hand: 1NT - 3♥ - ?? QJxxxxx x xx xxx

HI, 1NT - (3x) - ?? Any systems in play here? If not and 3-level bids are natural should they be dropping? Invitational? Forcing? Double is penalty, right? Thanks, Bill

Hi, We're trying to set some rules/guidelines for when 4NT should be natural. I have in mind auctions where we're bidding a bunch of suits without having found a fit. Either we get to the point where somebody wants to bid 4NT to play over 4m, or somebody wants to jump to 4NT quantitative (not blackwwod). Something like, 1♠-2♥/ 3♣-3♦... If you are the opener and now want to play NT but 3NT isn't enough can you bid 4NT here, natural and quantitative? What if respoder wnats to bid NT naturally after opener repeats one of his suits? This is just an example, don't want to get too tied up in the specifics of this sequence, but looking for some general ideas. So far we've come up with something like "If we've bid all four suits naturally with no raise then either pd at their next bid can bid 4NT natural..." But we hope we can come up with something better or more than that... The main problem we're trying to solve is when one or both of us are bidding around like fools, trying to scrape up forcing bids because we're afraid to bid 4NT for fear (or knowing) it won't have the meaning we intend. Maybe we've bid all the suits, maybe we haven't. Eventually we're stuck bidding 3NT when we don't want to end the auction, or 4NT when it's likely to be taken as blackwood, not quantitative (or vice versa, we want to ask for aces but fear this is the time pd will assume we're bidding naturally). In other words we're tying to get away from the beginner practice of "4NT is blackwood uber alles " to something a little more flexible, but don't really know where to start. (We're playing St. American, not 2/1. Responder's 2nd round jumps are GF and 4SF is 1 round force, if it matters.) Thanks, Bill

What is the difference, if any, in a takeout doubler's rebid if his partner has made a free bid? (1♣)-X-(p)-1♠/ (p)-2♠ I think shows something like 16-18. How about: (1♣)-X-(1♥)-1♠/ (p)-2♠ What does the 2♠ show here? Do you want to bid more freely since pd has shown some values? If so, how do your bids change in meaning? Thanks, Bill

Hi, Why do most people think hand #2 is a limit raise? It looks like a forcing raise to me. Isn't it 11 good HCP? (Ok it has no aces, but the other honors are reasonable to good.) Can't I add 1 point for my nice 5-card ♣ suit and another for the ♠ dblton? Looks to me like I have 13 points with nice 3-card support and will make a forcing raise. What's wrong with my analysis? Thanks, Bill

Maybe I should have started with what I thought I needed for the bid. In the direct seat for (2♥)-2NT we'd expect something like 16-19. So in balancing I'd think I could make the bid with about 3 points less so 13-16. (Just like in balancing I'd bid (1♥)-p-p-1NT with something like 11-14 or 12-15.) Sounds like you're upping the 2NT balancing bid a tad to 14-17, Hog. Fine, but then isn't this 16hcp hand with 3 aces and a 5-card suit at least at the max of that range? Seems the consensus is that it's nowhere near the max so there must be something else at work here. Do you not use a lower range when balancing 2NT over a weak 2, like you do when it's 1NT over one of a suit? Or do I devalue my hand because I think I'm going to get clobbered in ♥'s? Or do I have the requirement for a direct (2♥)-2NT wrong?

Ok, I got this loud and clear :) I did think I was max+ because I was in the balancing seat. But it seems that I shouldn't be applying that principle "in this position". Why not--what position am I in? Because it is balancing over a weak 2? Specifically because it is a balancing NT bid over a weak 2? (To put the question another way, I would lower the point count I needed in the balancing seat for 1♥ p p 1NT , why not for 2♥ p p 2NT?)

It's a weak 2 opening this time, your bid. [hv=d=w&v=e&s=sa7ha87daq743cq96]133|100|Scoring: IMP 2♥ - p - p - ??[/hv] Do you want to bid NT? If so, are you too strong for 2NT? If so, doesn't X then 3NT make you cringe a little? (Does the scoring or vul matter?) Thanks, Bill

Hi, I have a question about methods to handle opps 2-suited overcalls after we open 1 of a suit. What we play now is this: --Cue bid (or lower cue bid if 2 suits are known): Limit raise or better in opener's suit. --higher cue bid (if 2 suits are known): Forcing raise in the unbid suit. About 10 hcp and 5+ cards. --All raises are 6-9 points. --Double: 10 hcp, suggests defensive values. --All suit bids show a max of 9 hcp, nf. Typically a reasonable suit, 5+. To show a better hand with a good suit you can make the higher cue bid if available, or X and bid the suit later if the higher cue bid is not available. --Jump cue bids are splinters. --No Trump bids are natural. I have seen other methods with slightly different meanings for the cues and the bids. But I haven't seen one that handles my main concern which is this--How do we show a 4-card major? I don't see a way for responder to bid it. And when it gets back to the opener he will likely be on the 3-level, maybe the 4- or 5-level so it's tough to make a stab with a 4-card major with many of his holdings. So, couple of Q's: 1. Are the methods we employ reasonable? 2. How do we bid our 4-card majors? Thanks, Bill

Hi, A little over a year ago I taught my partner how to play, right from scratch. Having to prioritize what we studied, and feeling that a little knowledge of carding might be worse than none at all, I decided to put off any mention of it until we had covered some other basics like transfers, how to take a finesse, etc. We had no carding agreements in the purest form: my partner simply had no inkling that the cards you played when you weren't trying to win a trick could have any meaning at all. I can't believe that the ACBL would have a rule that we would have to go home and not return to the club until we had learned a little something about carding. So off we trotted to a few club games, and even our first regional, and I had some difficulty explaining to others that the cards we played carried absolutely no meaning. I eventually settled on the following response when asked about our carding: "Unsophisticated." Bill

I go up with the ♥J. When I draw trump and find them 5-0, I get back to the board with a ♦ and then start playing clubs. If W doesn't trump one of the first 3 clubs, I trump the 4th ♣, back with a ♦, trump another ♣. Now all my trump are good. I think this works every time W can't trump a ♦. If W ever trumps a club, I overtrump, draw the remaining trumps and then back to the board with a ♦. This will only work when W has dropped the ♣J, making my ♣T good for my last needed discard. Not 100% but the best I can do. Bill

Thanks Adam for that post, it helps sort out what I've been missing. Others had posted that the club shotness is what really makes you want to bid this hand, and I see now that is not just because it makes your hand better but that it makes p's bid so tough. (some strong reactions from others helped that point come home, too :rolleyes: ) And, when p has clubs he can have a good idea you may be bidding on such a hand and won't get overly excited. I was worried that the direct bid would be confusing because it would be very hard to sort out what type of hand the 4♥ bidder has, but if partner takes a look at his club holding (and the opponents decision to carry on or not) he will have at least some idea. Thanks all, Bill