puppet stayman isn't unreasonable bidding, in my view... the garbage aspect doesn't detract from that... i think it adds to it... +++++++++++ OK then: Qxxx, xx, xx, KJxxx. The garbage puppetty thing works only with Ds. But really, I wasn't disparaging puppet, which I play myself (though always invitational). I am just saying I am passing with the above, then bidding 4S over a 2H balance, and in doing so I am pleased that partner knows I have 4 spades only.