luis

Gotta pass, there is no room to try anything logical. What the hell is 4♥? There is no need to jump to 4♥ when we already are in a gf situation.

For me it is both minors, since 2NT over 2♠ is natural. Luis

Well I thik 4♠ may be a good way to end it but I couldn't stand bidding 1NT and then 4♠ with 6-6 in the minors. My first plan was to bid 4NT and since pd rates to have 3 or 4 keycards pass the 5♣ or 5♦ response hoping for the best. What do you think of this plan? I wasn't brave enough. So I decided to bid 4♣ showing a club control. Pd bid 4♦ showing a diamond control. And I bid 5♣ Pd bid 5♦ And I bid 6♣ what the hell... Pd had: AKQxxx Jxx A Axx Clubs were 2-2 so 6♣ was made for +920, I'm not going to claim I did well in this board I just had a lot of luck. In retrospect I think the best plan is to start with 2♦ and describe your shape, so I support those who bid 3♦ for the 1NTers like me maybe the lesson is not to bid 1NT again with a 6-6 hand :-) Luis

5♣ exclusion RKCB on weekdays, 5♥ exclusion RKCB on weekends. There is a 0% chance to buy it in 4♠ they may have a slam or we may have a slam, the exclusion RKCB bid will help me find a slam if we have one and will make it very hard to bid a slam if they have one. The choice between the honest 5♣ and the devilish 5♥ will depend to me on the state of the match, the opponents and atmospheric pressure. Luis

First question I bid 3♦ Second question I bid 5♣

This was a very interesting problem to me. I thought that the key question for a slam was the diamond suit, so with 4♣ I intended to discover the diamond K or a signleton in pd's hand. Even when 4♣ denies a spade control pd will then cuebid 4♦ only with the spade control and diamond control which is exactly what we need for slam. I completely accept the score but I have the idea that 4♣ might work better than 3♠ what do the others think about it?

I raise my hand :-) When I started playing bridge I focused too much on the system, today I've come to the conclusion that the system you must play is the system that is better for your partnership and that the system while important is not as important as playing well, defending well and having good judgement in the auction. I play Fantunes-style with my regular pd because we were too undisciplined to play 2/1 in a succesful way, not knowing if pd opened on 8 or 15 or what was destructive, with Fantunes we are "under control" so it is going fine. I've simplified everything I could, our system notes are a 6 page booklet mostly focusing in the NT structure, the competitive agreements and the development of the most regular sequences. I like listening to what good players say and Fred's advice about focusing in the play and judgement has been a great advice to me, my juniors-time coach also focused a lot on that so I'm very grateful to him too. I strongly believe that in order to be a good player you have to start learning to be a good defender and a good declarer, you have to learn to develop a good judgement to get out of difficult bidding situations and then if you are lucky to have a regular pd just try to find the system that works best for both of you. Working on a system without a pd is useless and working on a system without the skills that Fred mentioned will just lead to embarrasing results. Where I play I've witnessed a case of a group of 4 students that started taking classes with a good teacher, they played vanilla 2/1 and quickly started to do quite well, many mistakes but I was suprised to see how they were progressing. For some reason they moved to another teacher who started teaching them a precision system, their results have become horrible, they don't have an idea of what they are bidding and their play and defense has declined a lot. A pitty. Luis

In #1 I don't mind 1NT might bid 1NT from time to time on a hand like this but I would be opening 3♦ or 4♦ a lot. In #2 I would hate 2♣, in fact I think I never did a fake or psychic 2/1 response. I know a few players that playing strong club system take advantage of the limited opening and would bid 2♣ and then 4 of the major, if you are prepared that is not very helpful because you just treat the auction as 1M-4M with the advantage of being able to double for the lead the suit or bid a suit at the 2 level for the lead. In #3 I don't think 3NT is a psych I would say it is a sillly way to raise to 4 :-) nobody falls into that any more so it is useless.

Sorry forgot to say 2NT would promise 4-5 balanced with 4 clubs.

2♣ showing 9 of my cards and feeling happy about one of my bids for once in a while...

3NT planning to rescue myself to 4♦ if doubled :-)

I think I would have passed.

I have it :-) It was my opponents who made the worst penalty double I've ever seen It's in the hall of fame of hands here in Argentina, it happened about 5 years ago in a national pairs tournament, IMPs, last match and we needed a big win in the last match to finish in a good position (we were far away from the winner) Number of kibitzers: Zero [hv=d=s&v=b&n=skxxhqxxdkxcqjtxx&w=sqjxxxhjtxxxdxcxx&e=sxxxhakxxxdqxcaxx&s=saxhdajtxxxxxckxx]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] I was south. And for reasons beyond human comprenhension I decided to open 1♥. Bidding 1♥ - pass - 2♣ - pass 2♦ Number of kibitzers: 5 2♦ is so far the best second suit ever bid in the history of bridge: AJTxxxxx 1♥ - pass - 2♣ - pass 2♦ - pass - 2♥ - pass 3♣ -pass - 3♠ - pass Number of kibitzers: 16 3NT - pass - 4NT - pass 5♥ - pass - pass Number of kibitzers: 20 3♣ was a futile attempt to move the trump suit from hearts to clubs 5♥ showed 2 keycards (am I completely nuts? maybe) Now my screen mate looks at me very sad and moves his head from side to side saying "no no" and proceeds to double! 1♥ - pass - 2♣ - pass 2♦ - pass - 2♥ - pass 3♣ -pass - 3♠ - pass 3NT - pass - 4NT - pass 5♥ - pass - pass - X 6♣ - pass - pass - X ? - Number of kibitzers: 28 6♣ is now known as the "resurrection" bid RHO doubles on general principles and passes the tray without waiting for my bid At this point I took a redouble card from the bidding box and threw it over the screen to the other side while yelling "hey my turn!" Number of kibitzers: 33 RHO lead the heart ace while I tabled dummy LHO: Did you open this hand 1♥ Me: No, how can I open 1♥ with a void? LHO: Ah.... Pd ruffs the heart in dummy and plays the club king. RHO still in shock takes this with the Ace. LHO appears again under the screen LHO: Are you sure you didn't open 1♥ because... ME: Don't you see I have a heart void? How can I open 1♥ LHO: yes, right, but... RHO tries for the second time in a row to cash a heart when dummy was still displaying a void, pd ruffed with the last trump and now.... in a super way to end the hand returns to his hand with a DIAMOND!!!! (not a spade), draws trumps and claims ME: Are you crazy weird piece of psycho? why not return with the 5 card suit instead of the 10 card suit PD: I didn't notice you had 8 diamonds LHO: somehow I think you opened that hand 1♥ RHO: I need water LHO: Did he open 1♥ RHO: Water please!!! LHO (scratches head): I must be so tired, I'm thinking you opened 1♥.... RHO: Somebody give me water! LHO: Pd did you double 5♥? Because I have 5 cards in hearts.... RHO: I think I need a doctor ME: Let's get out of here PD: Yes, let's run So from 5♥ down a zillion to 6♣xx made make your maths. I don't do this kind of things any more but how fun the old days were.... :-) Pd and I still play together RHO retired for some months and now is back he had no health sequels LHO never played again to our knowledge

I wil answer your thoughts not with the intention of making an argument but to clarify some points, it may help you design a plan for this hand :-) 1) If you bid 2♦ over 1♠ pd will bid 2♠ over 3♣ he will bid 3♠. I'm not sure if you are in a better or worst position relative to the players bidding 1NT, you are showing your suits, right, but you are also lying while the 1NT bidders so far did not tell a single lie to pd, they have a 6-9 hand as promised. Once the whole auction finishes we can debate if we have to bid 2♦ or 1NT with this kind of hand. I'm not sure! 2) 2NT over 2♣ gazilli by agreement would be 4-5 hcp and a balanced hand. It works a lot more than minors or a three suiter in most cases, of course not this one :-) 3) 4♥ now is not a cuebid is natural showing long hearts. It makes sense to play it in that way. 4) For the other pair 3 of a minor was dreaded Bergen :-). In my case I didn't bid 2♦ because I really didn't like the void in the suit pd opened, I have no problem to make a 2/1 bid with less than 10 and shape but I considered that overbidding with a negative factor such as a void in spades was probably wrong.

I just asked pd Ben If you bid 3♣ over 1♠ pd will bid 3♠ over 3♣ (undiscussed). Up to you to make some conclusions about it.

I'm not going to tell you what I bid but let's give you more information, your pd has been your pd for 5 years and the recipe for a long partnership has been to make fun of the stupid things we bridge players do from time to time. So before bidding 4♠ you can imagine your pd explaining to your teammates "Luis got a 6-6 hand in the minors, he bid NT first and then spades" or "If we are playing inverted bridge, bid hearts first the spades to show a 1-0 two suiter" or worst things. Do you bid 4♠ and stand for the jokes? :-)

If you read part I of this thread you got this interesting hand: [hv=d=n&v=n&s=shxdktxxxxckjtxxx]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv] Pd opens 1♠ showing 14+ among your options were 1NT showing 0-9 any shape. This was choosen by many posters and was also the bid I choose at the table. Since this was a team match I will post our auction and the auction at the other table playing 2/1 you can participate in one or both. Playing Fantunes 1♠ - 1NT 2♣* - 2♦ 3♠ 2♣ was any 18+ hand or natural (you guess) 2♦ showed 6-9 and is game forcing when pd has 18+ (there was no better option) 3♠ shows 18+ one suited hand with spades (you are in a GF now) (2♠ would have been 14-17 with spades and clubs) Playing 2/1 1♠ - 1NT 3♠ In both scenarios your options have more or less the same meaning even when the context is slightly different. 3NT is to play as well as 4♠ 4♥ is natural showing long hearts 4♣ would be a control with spade support same for 4♦ 4NT of course is RKCB and 5 of a minor is exclusion RKCB Your turn :-)

I love your optimism, keep tuned for the follow up thread :-)

Same for us we wouldn't open that 2♠.

Yes 1♠ is 14+ we play Fantunes style with 1x openings showing 14+ and 2x openings showing 9-13.

For maybe obscure or not reasons a direct jump to 5♣ without showing a club suit will be understood as exclusion blackwood in the suit pd mentioned.

2♦ I would say 1♠ is criminal unless pd knows you bid your xxxx suits before your AQxxx suits.

I confess that playing 3NT with a 6-6 hand never crossed my mind and I'm known for playing 3NT with a lot of strange shapes :-)

A second problem of 3♣ that I would like to note is that we are quite strict about 5-5 shape. With 6-5 for instance and 10+ we bid the 6 card suit in a normal 2/1 way.

Note: you are all invited to bid playing 2/1 too, you can submit your 2/1 bid and your "fantunes-style" bid which is what I was playing with my pd. The problem is very similar.