zhasbeen

Why bother with negative double? I don't know what convinced Gib to believe that my spades were so good, OR that we shouldn't be playing in clubs. This guy is really not much fun to play with. https://tinyurl.com/yye7w9xq

Most of the regulars have had this experience--another serious Gib error that has continued since my first robot game more than 2 years ago. Too bad that such an otherwise good website continues to use broken, outdated equipment for its robot games. While I’ve continued to play, the penalties side of rewards-vs-penalties scale has gradually moved more towards the negative side. I’m now in ‘trying to quit a bad habit’ state. I gave it a long pause (double, unusual nt, or rebid diamonds?), before deciding to bid it the way I did and paid a stiff price. How can Gib continue to do this when our side could easily be left in a 5-1 fit or even 4-1? https://tinyurl.com/y6pmmrxj

This worked out ok in matchpoint scoring, and slam is cold in nt or major, but it's not hard to imagine some club holdings that could prove to be disastrous. NS is known to have a minimum of 17 cards in majors. This is just plain weird, but nothing Gib does surprises me. https://tinyurl.com/y3zjp7d4

Yet another example of keeping us off balance. Expect the unexpected.

Does anyone know if robot tournament hands are randomly dealt or if BBO has some other way of making them up? It seems that I read a while back at another site where they could make hands with wilder distributions and other characteristics to make them more difficult (e.g. more blocked suits, subtle communication destroyers, etc.) I play mostly ACBL 12-board matches with 3 robots and 1 human at each table, but if it's done it would probably apply to any game where robots are used.

I'm with the Gerber bidders all the way, and as you say, it costs nothing to find out about the off chance you could be missing 2 aces (and have the defense cash them both with one in each hand). I'm not letting GIB off on quantitative with this hand, however.

This 4NT bid is in the critical error category--not just a minor misbid. Even with a square 12 GIB should skip the quantitative and just bid 6 (20-21 + 12 = 32-33). With the diamond suit as it is, it should be considering a grand.

Yet another lesson on how to be a terrible partner, courtesy of GIB: http://tinyurl.com/y6ahsz7b I don't know about you guys, but pass was a no-brainer for me. I have a 4-3-3-3 20-pointer with mediocre spots. I got 21% for passing.

Agree with TylerE. Just bid 4S after 4D. You said your piece with 4C bid. GIB would probably have put you in 6 if you had done it that way. That said, I can understand why you thought 5NT was correct bid since in System Notes it says "5NT An even number of keycards plus an unspecified void."

That could be, and it bothers me that I'm not sure. However, 2D would be forcing (4th suit), so what would 3D be playing with a normal partner? It's probably why GIB passed.

GIB continues to outdo itself, coming up with newer ways to confound players. After more than 3,000 tournaments I hadn't see this one before: http://tinyurl.com/ybrjwtx5 While I got a good score this time it was enough for to make me pass on the NABC Invididual that starts tomorrow. It could have easily gone the other way, and it left me with a little less confidence in GIB than the day before. He just keeps chipping away. It is a pattern that has continued since I started 18 months ago. If this, one of GIB's wild leaps to slam, being left in a 4-1 fit, etc., happened in the middle of a 72-board tournament it would be very unsettling. It's bad enough if it is only a 12-board match. I know it's the same for everyone, and the way I've stuck with it this long is to constantly remind myself of that. In the long run it has little, if any effect on matchpoint scores. However, you know there is something wrong when you have a good score, or even a win, and feel like you've been beaten with a stick. Yet, BBO management won't even throw us bone. The last I heard they are sticking with GIB for the foreseeable future. No only that, but it should be clear to everyone that it can not be fixed. I know there are better robots out there and I'm sure that they are not cheap. However, if BBO could so much as acknowledge that there is a problem and/or that they are looking into a solution it would be better than what I've seen thus far. 33 days and counting for me...

I have seen GIB show this pattern a few times. It is called a "bar bid" in the definition. However, there are other areas where GIB is inconsistent. If I had to guess on this one it would be not enough hcp. Maybe it's programmed to make one response only with less than "x" number of points, even if it means leaving you in a 4-1 fit! What can you say? GIB continues to outdo itself.

There are 2 more practice rounds to test; one Sat, Nov 17, and another Sun.

Hey Possum- I can empathize and share your frustration. However, I've been a glutton for punishment thus far- Fwiw, I don't believe it has any effect on matchpoint scores; at least in the long run. In a game not long ago, GIB dragged me kicking a screaming to 6, after which the EW GIB's cashed their 2 aces. On the very next hand I bid 6 clubs, and GIB bumped it up to 7; down 1. I got a above average on both boards but it still made me want to break some furniture.

Hrothgar- Although I’m not in the mood for having much good to say about GIB (see my response to next post), there are several things about the BBO robot tournaments that have kept me playing despite GIB. I have Bridge Master 2000 and Jack 6, btw, and agree that Jack 6 is much better than GIB. However, I believe that the combination of BBO robot tournaments and Bridge Master is better for practicing declarer play than either one by itself. I find that robot ratio of challenging hands-to routine is much greater than what I see in offline games in clubs and tournaments. There are lots of little traps, especially in managing entries, blocked suits, etc. While GIB makes lots of errors on defense, it does lay down some slick defenses on occasion. More than anything these hands make you think, and you can play a lot of them in a short time. Also, GIB’s discarding makes it harder (for me, at least) to follow the discards than in normal play. The replays are nice too (although sometimes depressing—"man, did I ever butcher that one”) Add hundreds of experienced players to compare results with and you have enough for me to be more excited about playing in the BBO robot tournaments than playing solo with Jack 6. Having all the other players is the difference maker. All that said, the cumulative frustration of dealing with GIB will surely have me play playing far fewer tournaments in 2019. And, if there is ever a site with similar set up and better robots I will be gone. While the first level of BBO support has been helpful, the people in charge of the robots don’t seem to appreciate our business.

2 thumbs up! I don't think there is even a pretense anymore that GIB can be fixed. IMO nothing qualifies as an "upgrade" that doesn't correct the long list of serious GIB problems that include the leaps to slam, often off 2 aces; the worst doubling judgment by far I've ever seen, clueless handling of 2-suiters, and on, and on, and on... If anything it is worse than a year ago when I started.

Do you happen to have the tournament number? I think I played that hand yesterday, but if not, GIB made the same play in the same suit.

No, I was suggesting that players have given hope that GIB will ever improve. Participation in this forum has dried up. When I Joined a year ago there was much more involvement, both from players and BBO. When I said “not even one reply since the 14th…” I meant from anyone. No responses from players or BBO—none for days at a time. It wasn’t like this a year ago, but even then, I could sense the apathy after standard support sent me over here. GIB’s problems are not minor and cannot be fixed. If you or anyone can prove otherwise I will be a happy customer. BBO can say there have been “upgrades” but I’m not seeing any evidence and I’ve played a LOT—probably more than 90% of BBO’s customers. If anything, GIB has gotten worse. The ill-advised leaps to unmakeable slams are as frequent as they ever were. Handling of 2-suited hands is as poor as it ever was. Cue bids are grossly misused, often putting human partner to an impossible guess on what to do. This happens time, and time again. The same incorrect definitions that existed a year ago are still there. The list goes on and on and on. Apparently GIB is impossible to work on. Anything that doesn’t solve at least a few of these problems does not qualify as an "upgrade", IMO. Look at the hand that Jammen submitted yesterday. I’m talking about the one with KQJ98764 of diamonds and A98 of clubs. He passed as dealer, passed west’s 3 hearts opposite a partner that opened the bidding! Then he doubled 4H!! This is not minor stuff we are talking about. Yesterday I overcalled a 1H opening with a balanced 16 and heart stopper, after which my LHO bid 2S to end the bidding. Holding a stiff spade and KQ10954 of clubs GIB did not compete. Vulnerability was favorable. I wouldn’t want to play with anyone who let the opponents play at 2 level in that situation. Not as bad as Jammen’s example but still very poor. The obvious question is why I continue to play, and it is good one. Thus far I have I’ve continued to remind myself that it’s the same for everyone. I like to compete are there are dozens, if not hundreds, of good players to compete with. You can still score well when others are faced with same problems you are.I like the layout and the easily accessible videos of every hand that you and your opponents have played. You can even download them to your computer if you like. However, playing with GIB everyday is so annoying that it comes close to canceling out all the positives. It makes me wonder if it means anything when you do well. The cumulative effect has been wearing me down to the point that it makes this hobby of mine barely worth continuing. I hope to finish out this year playing the ACBL tournaments and reaching the goal I’ve set. If I use BBO at all in 2019 it will be only for practicing card play in the 25-cent tournaments. I have yet to hear anyone from BBO admit that GIB has serious problems or evidence that they can do anything about them. I still remember a few months ago when Jdonn said the plan is to stick with GIB indefinitely. He said something to the effect that he had customer complaints and threats to quit for past 9 years, but they continued to play. Translation: “take it or leave it”. Is there anyone here who frequently plays in ACBL robot tournaments? If so I’d be happy to have a discussion.

What can you say about a deal like this? GIB passes with 8 playing tricks, then doubles with an 8-card suit that is source of 7 of those tricks. I’ve seen him open with many 10-pointers that are much worse than this. Who knows what he will do with a similar hand next time? Choices are a preempt or 1 diamond, but certainly not a pass. My vote is for 1D with the outside ace and 7 near certain diamond tricks. The double is just plain crazy. GIB is as difficult a partner as you’ll ever find. I wish he could be repaired but it’s highly unlikely that it is possible. ...................... guess you don't have much choice but leave the double in when looking a your cards

I wonder what it will take for BBO management to face the reality of GIB. It is the big elephant in the living room of an otherwise great web site. By my observation it is already hurting business and it is only going to get worse. I’m having to wait longer for a reasonable number of players to enter a tournament and I also noticed that the last NABC 3-day tournament had more than 300 fewer entrants than the one before. I play only in the ACBL 12-board tourneys; mostly matchpoints but have been playing more ‘instant’ matches in recent weeks. My comments are based only on these tournaments consisting of 1 human and 3 robots at each table. In the Help system under “About GIB Robots” it says: “GIB is widely considered to be one of the best computer bridge programs ever created….” That might have been true years ago but not anymore, and nothing can be done to bring him up to date. He is too old and not powerful enough to play like the stronger ones that are out there. If it were possible the programmers would have done it by now. I have hands scattered all over the room where I play, saying to myself "I’m going to post it on the forum", then apathy sets in and I don’t do it. It would be an exercise in venting only, with nothing that will help GIB get any better. Last week I bid 5 clubs and GIB raised to 6; down one. On the very next board I bid 6 and GIB raised me a trick to 7; down 1. For the 2 boards I was slightly above average but it’s just not fun to play with a partner that consistently makes these kinds of bids. He has done it several times since then, but “only” one at a time rather than back-to-back. Nobody enjoys this even though many continue to play. Who likes playing with a partner you can’t trust? What kind of a dummy is he going to lay down this time? Do I lie about how may aces I hold when he launches into blackwood? Will he put up his ace when declarer leads small to dummy’s queen when I hold the stiff king? (he’s done this or similar several times – GIB loves ‘second hand high’) Call me a basher if you want but I’m sure not indifferent. I would much rather see BBO do well than not and have hung in there for more than a year, despite all the frustrations. I like everything about these tournaments except this one problem. Unfortunately, it is so big that there are too many days that it cancels out most of the good. My goal is to finish out this year since I’ve spent so much time and money trying to compile a good record. No way will I play as much next year, if it all. Good scores don’t balance out the frustration that occurs when you have GIB as partner. I understand that his antics don’t have much, if any, effect on matchpoint scores. It’s the same for everyone. However, it has a major effect on how it feels to play under these conditions. I’m not talking a few minor errors either. Volume is high, and errors are major. I would gladly produce some examples if I thought it would do any good. Obviously, I’m not the only one who feels that way as you can tell by how much participation in the forum has dried up. Doesn't Warren Buffet has some connection with BBO? Maybe he could help.

Click on: http://www.bridgebase.com/doc/gib_system_notes.php Then select “Click here” link at top of page to see GIB convention card See “Other” under Minor Openings where it says “2C after 1D opening not GF” Although I hate to depend on the definition I would double check it with the example you gave. If you see no mention of GF after your 3C bid prepare to be left there. It can be a best guess on which game to pick if you don’t want to be left in a partial.

"Can't help but believe that it would be much more useful to be working on a a standard interface to allow folks to use Jack or WinBridge or whatever they prefer.." Seems like there was talk about something like that last year but it wasn't feasible. Whatever the case, something needs to be done.

Now you are talking. “But also this progress sometimes seems like tuning the windshield wipers when we do need a new engine. “ Yes!!

More than a few times I’ve wondered if some hands are setup with intent to inflict pain and suffering upon the player. It’s as if some people are bored, so they sit around and dream up these hands to get a reaction. Interesting, challenging hands are one thing, but these are something entirely different. This is one of hundreds of examples in this category, but I must admit that this one makes the top 20. Hand 1 west jumps in at 3 level. Hand 2 north is silent. [hv=pc=n&s=s8hkqdkj632cakj32&w=sqt96542ht3d85ct9&n=sajhaj8542dat7cq5&e=sk73h976dq94c8764&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1hp2d3s3np4cp6dpp]399|300[/hv] [hv=pc=n&s=sahk942da872caj82&w=sk94ht8dkjt5cqt75&n=sqjt87532h6dq3c43&e=s6haqj753d964ck96&d=e&v=n&b=2&a=2hppp]399|300[/hv]

So far as I can see, BBO isn't likely to do much about these problems until customers start hitting the door.