bridgepali

B-) Thank you Kaitlyn S. I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, but my intentions are honorable and your account of what I wanted to convey is right on point. I find your post/thread "Bidding Problems" to be most informative. :wub:

B-) Hey Bridge Pal: Thank you for viewing Talking Pts. For the start of a new points topic, a show and tell on how points meld hands into conventions, go to Talking Pts. X?. :rolleyes:

B-)] I find conventions to be a masterful way to identify hands that do or don't mesh. Convention authors went to great lengths to interface playable options. Yet I find conventions to be a slippery slope due to player reluctance to bid a convention as authored. The next series of Talking Pts. is dedicated to convention authors. I will attempt to enlighten the reader on the most commonly used Fit Finding, Slam Seeking, Two Suit Fit Finding conventions. B-) Watch for Talking Pts. X??.

B-) Good Day Bridge Pals: Thank you for the interest you have shown in Talking Pts. V??. :)

B-) Good Day Bridge Pals: Thank you for the interest you have shown in Talking Pts. V???. :)

B-) Good Day Bridge Pals: Thank you for the interest you have shown in Talking Pts. V????. :)

B-) Good Day Stefan O: The card formations presented in the post produce ntw's. (Refer to Talking Pts. V?? for definition of the abbreviation.). With regard to a six card strain headed by a spot card below the value of nine in responder's hand. Having those six cards in one hand places the high cards of the strain, ace through ten, in the other three hands. Depending on their distribution, the high cards will neutralize themselves before the six card strain is depleted leaving a ntw (three add-on points) or two depending upon the opponent's split of the strain. My post are for sharing where I find hidden points. All too often partnership's have hidden points that would have led to a game or slam if only their presence were known. How players use the knowledge is up to them. With regard to examples. I believe they have been adequately provided on a need basis. Any lack of transparency is a shortcoming on my part. This is not rocket science we are dealing with. :D

B-) Good morning Stephan O: Thank you for the respectful reply. Watch for 3NT contracts that have been made with less than 24 hcpts. with no misplays. Then peruse the partnership's hands to determine where the 3 pts. needed to make the contract (26-28 hcpts.) came from. Likely you will find one of the card formations in the post. If not, you will have found another card formation. There is no such thing as a point count free trick. :rolleyes:

B-) I find under no-trump play there are card formations that have a high percentage of having three add-on pts. (The number to take a trick.). - A five card strain headed by a face card when in responder's hand. - A six card strain headed by a spot card below nine when in responder's hand. - Four honors, unless part of a five card strain in responder's hand. - A strain with two of the top three honors, it's jack, ten or both, plus one or two spot cards. - An ace/king/queen sequence when having spot cards above the value of seven. B-) Watch for Talking Pts. X?

B-) I find under trump play that a partnership with 19+ hcpts. has a high percentage four level penalty double and when having 16+ hcpts. a five level when the below provisos are in place. - Opener opened with at least 13pts. - Responder responded with at least 8 pts. - Doubler has three cards of opponent's trump strain. - Doubler's point count is void of a singleton king, queen, doubleton queen. B-) Watch for Talking Pts. X

B-) I find under trump play when a void or singleton is in a partnership's hands and valued at 3/2 points respectively, the partnership can barely muster enough points to come up with a four level (point count 26-28) strain bid even though the hand has a higher bid potential. Is this by happenstance or design? Distribution points (D.pts.) are the latent result of consummated ruffs and discards by non-ordained trick winners (ntw.). Unlike honors they are the product of speculation. Ruff points coming from the footprint of a trump strain (View Talking Pts. ??, ???, ????, under Natural Bidding Discussion Forum.). Discard points through a declarer's skill for finding discards and consummating. There value is three points per trick on par with honor trick points. When added to the combined hand count and not cashed they can cause a contract not to be made. I have on record copies of many trump auctions bid by experienced players when they valued voids at 7 pts, and singletons at 5 pts. and made the contract. I also have many where the declarer's ability to find and consummate a discard, or multiple discard, was not up to the task. Cookie cutter point counting methods are geared to keep the novice player from overbidding when voids and singletons are in a partnership's hands. They act as a limiting governor and keep novice players from overbidding. To optimize your bidding results, set your partnership's void and singleton values to your partnership's level of play. Remember, the piper must be paid. B-) Watch for Talking Pts. V????

B-) I find because aces, kings, queens and one jack are pre-ordained trick winners, tricks are garnered through the following scheme. When a card below the rank of queen becomes a trick winner (ntw), just like a pre-ordained trick winner (ptw) it is entitled to: - replace a ptw that has been overtook or sacrificed. - displace a ptw that it has been played prior to. - be a thirteenth trick. Depending on who a ntw is a winner for, it follows a pre-designated protocol. If during the play of a hand a declarer ptw is overtook or sacrificed, a declarer ntw becomes it's surrogate when one is put forth. If upon conclusion of play of the thirteenth trick a declarer ntw has not been put forth, an opponent ntw becomes it's surrogate by default. If during the play of a hand a declarer ptw has not been overtook or sacrificed by the conclusion of play of the thirteenth trick, a declarer ntw will either have: - displaced an un-played declarer ptw. - displaced an opponent ptw. - filled the spot of the thirteenth trick if it hasn't been filled with a declarer ptw. If during the play of a hand an opponent ptw is overtook or sacrificed, an opponent ntw becomes it's surrogate when one is put forth. If upon conclusion of play of the thirteenth trick an opponent ptw has not been put forth, a declarer ntw becomes it's surrogate by default. If during the play of a hand an opponent ptw has not been overtook or sacrificed by the conclusion of play of the thirteenth trick, an opponent ntw will either have: - displaced an un-played opponent ptw. - displaced a declarer ptw. after an opponent ntw has filled the spot of the thirteenth trick. - filled the spot of the thirteenth trick if it hasn't been filled with a declarer ptw. or ntw. The number of tricks each partnership takes depends on the distributed point count and player's skill. B-) Watch for Talking Pts. V???

[/size B-)] I find a troubling bid for partners to be the overcall that takes a trump bid into no-trump, or vice versa. What to do about the difference in the make-up of points. Under trump play point count is made-up of hcpts., distribution pts. and formation pts. Whereas, under no-trump play point count is made-up of hcpts. and formation pts. When contemplating overcalling a three level strain bid with a strain bid, don't overcall unless the combined hand's have at least 29 pts. to cover the missing requisite trump footprint; or a minimum of 26 hcpts., or matching amount of hcpts. and formation pts., when contemplating a 3NT bid. There is a chance a four level trump contract can be made with 26-28 combined hand pts., provided the trump strain footprint is 4/4 with over six hcpts. in each hand or a trick taking tactic having the value of one trick, like a finesse or discard, were found and successfully consummated. When contemplating overcalling a 2NT (combined hand pt. range 23-25) bid with a strain bid, due to the residual distribution pts. in the combined hands the bid can be made safely without the addition of points. To raise the bid to 3NT bidder should have three undeclared hcpts., or three in-hand formation pts. not included in the current combined hand point count. If neither option can be met, pass. B-) B-) B-) Watch for Talking Pts. V??

B-) I find when the 5/3 requisite trump footprint is 4/4 a sizeable percentage of these hands require three additional points (The value of one trick.) to have the combined hand point count correspond to it's optimum bid level. In other words to make a three level (pt. range 23-25) contract requires 26-28 pts.; a four level (pt. range 26-28) contract 29-31 pts. Example: [hv=pc=n&s=sq76hajt6dakj3c84&w=sj82hkq2dqt4ca973&n=sak9h8743d876ckqj&e=st543h95d952ct652&d=e&v=0&b=14&a=p1np2cp2hp4hppp]399|300[/hv] Bidquest: Abiding by the 5cardMABBS South opens 1NT declaring 15-17 hcpts. North having four hearts and 13 pts. bids two clubs (Stayman Convention). South at North's behest bids two hearts. North estimating the combined hand count to be 29 pts. (five level pt. range) and knowing the trump footprint will be 4/4 not the 5/3 requisite trump footprint, bids four hearts knowing the combined hands have 26 pts. (four level range) after subtracting 3 pts. for the missing card from the requisite trump footprint. Had the point count been below 26 pts., North would have bid three hearts. B-) Stayman is the largest spawner of 4/4 trump footprints. I've noticed that when a 4/4 trump footprint's hcpts. is below six in one of the hands, the chance of being set becomes very high.

B-) I find when the requisite trump footprint is 5/2 or 4/3 to have the combined hand point count correspond with the bid level ranges requires three additional points (The value of one trick). In other words to make a three level (pt. range 23-25) contract requires 26-28 pts.; a four level (pt. range 26-28) contract 29-31 pts. Example 5/2: [hv=pc=n&s=sq76hakt62da86c84&w=sj82hqj53dqtca973&n=sak94h87dkj73ckq2&e=st53h94d9542cjt65&d=e&v=0&b=14&a=p1hp4hppp]399|300[/hv] Bidquest: Abiding by the 5cardMABBS South opens declaring five hearts and at least 13 pts. North having 13 pts. (16 high card minus 3 for missing card from requisite trump footprint) bids hearts at the four level ( pt. range 26-28) knowing the combined hands have at least 26 pts. South's 1 pt. not declared in the opening bid brings the combined hand point total to midpoint of the four level bid range. If North had not had the 3 pts. to make up for the missing card from the trump strain, a four level contract can still be made provided a trick taking tactic having the value of one trick, like a finesse or discard, were found and successfully consummated. Example 4/3: [hv=pc=n&s=sq76hakt6da863c84&w=st82hj32dqt2ca973&n=saj94h874dkj7ckqj&e=sk53hq95d954ct652&d=e&v=0&b=14&a=p1dp2sp3hp4hppp]399|300[/hv] Bidquest: Abiding by the 5cardMABBS South opens declaring four diamonds and at least 13 pts. North having 12 pts. (15 high card minus 3 for missing card from requisite trump footprint) and four spades, bids four spades at the two level(pt. range 20-22). South not having four spades, but knowing by North's bid the combined hands have 24 pts. (three level bid range) bids three hearts. North knowing the combined hands are short of a four level bid by 1 pt. bids four hearts speculating that South has 1 pt. not declared. If South doesn't have the 1 pt., the contract can still be made provided a trick taking tactic having the value of one trick, like a finesse or discard, were found and consummated. B-) I also find that anytime one of the combined hands has less than three cards of trump, even though the other has five or more, three additional points are needed to have the point count match-up to it's corresponding bid level range. Watch for Talking Pts.?????

B-) I find when the 5/3 requisite trump footprint is 5/4 or 6/3, three fewer points (The value of one trick.) are needed to make a bid level. In other words, a three level (pt. range 23-25) contract can be made with 20-22 pts.; a four level (pt. range 26-28) contract with 23-25 pts. Example: [hv=pc=n&s=sk76hakt62da863c4&w=saj82h83dqt9ca973&n=st94hj974dj74ckqj&e=sq53hq5dk52ct8652&d=e&v=0&b=14&a=p1h1s3hp4hppp]399|300[/hv] Bidquest: Abiding by the 5cardMABBS South opens declaring having five hearts and at least 13 pts. North responds at the three level (pt. range 23-25) declaring having 11-12 pts. (8 high card and 3 card formation) and enough hearts to fill out the 5/3 requisite trump footprint. South perceiving the 5/3 requisite trump footprint is satisfied and the combined hand's have 23 pts., with the 4 pts. not declared in the opening bid, bids hearts at the four level (pt. range 26-28). B-) I also find that when the requisite trump footprint has three cards in one of the combined hands with over five cards in the other, 3 pts. can be added to that hand's point count for each card over five. Watch for Talking Pts.????

B-) I find an impediment to trump play to be my partners. They understate their hand's point count leading to an underbid contract and overstate their hand's point count leading to a set contract; unless a trick taking tactic, like a finesse or discard, can be found to satisfy the shortness in the point count. There are fifteen point altering card formations I am aware of that by their in-hand presence will inflate/deflate point count disrupting the matching-up between point count and corresponding bid level ranges. Example: [hv=pc=n&s=sj76hakt62da8cjt2&w=saq92hq3djt9ca973&n=sk854hj74dq762ckq&e=st3h985dk543c8654&d=e&v=0&b=14&a=p1h1s3hp4hppp]399|300[/hv] Bidquest: Abiding by the 5cardMABBS South opens declaring five hearts and at least 13 pts. North responds at the three level (pt. range 23-25) declaring having 11-12 pts. and enough hearts to fill out the 5/3 requisite trump footprint. South perceiving from the bid that the 5/3 requisite trump footprint is satisfied and that the combined hands have at least 25 pts. (Three level pt. range) with the 1 pt. not declared in the opening bid, bids hearts at the four level (pt. range 26-28). Unfortunately the contract gets set! Instead of having 26 pts. the combined hands have 23. The doubleton queen of clubs in North's hand reduced the hand's point count by the value of one trick (3 pts.). B-) I find determining levels to bid at exclusively by point count to be an effective approach for conducting the bidding process; even when my partner is using another method. Watch for Talking Pts.???

B-) I find the most accurate point count method for trump play to be when I value voids at 5 pts. singletons at 3 pts. and doubletons at 1 pt. These values have shown that when added to hcpts. adjusted for point altering card formations, the point count reflects the optimum bid level for combined hands no matter what stage the bidding process is at. Example: [hv=pc=n&s=sq76hakt62da863c4&w=saj82h83dqt4ca973&n=st94hj74dkj72ckqj&e=sk53hq95d95ct8652&d=e&v=0&b=14&a=p1h2s3hp4hppp]399|300[/hv] Bidquest: Abiding by the 5cardMABBS, South opens declaring five hearts and having at least 13 pts. North responds at the three level (pt. range 23-25) declaring having 11-12 pts. and enough hearts to fill out the 5/3 requisite trump footprint. South perceiving from North's bid that the 5/3 requisite trump footprint is satisfied and that the combined hand's have at least 23 pts. (Three level bid range.), with the 3 pts. not declared in the opening bid, bids hearts at the four level (pt. range 26-28). B-) The difference between overbidding and underbidding is one point; also the difference between making a contract and not making a contract. The closer the match-up between point count and bid level ranges the more precise a partnership's bidding can be. Point count methods have never met this requirement thusly creating out of necessity the out of kilter bidding practices in use. Watch for Talking Pts.??

:unsure: :unsure: I don't grasp what you're getting at?

The combined hands have 23 pts. indicating a safe 2NT or 3 level trump bid can be made. This does not mean a higher level bid couldn't be made. A card formation in the 25 pt. hand may provide additional pts. For point count to match-up to The Combined Hand Equivalent Chart three point scale, a void needs to be valued at 5 pts., a singleton at 3 pts. and a doubleton at one point in both hands.

The combined hands have 23 pts. indicating a safe 2NT or 3 level trump bid can be made. This does not mean a higher level bid couldn't be made. A card formation in the 25 pt. hand may provide additional pts. For point count to match-up to The Combined Hand Equivalent Chart three point scale, a void needs to be valued at 5 pts., a singleton at 3 pts. and a doubleton at one point in both hands.

:( Based on writings and brochures pure numerical point counting evolved during the 1940's. For it was during that decade it was determined that under no-trump play a minimum of 20 pts. would usually take seven tricks, 23 pts. eight tricks, 26 pts. nine tricks and so on every three point increment up to twelve/thirteen tricks. It was also determined at that time that under trump play the 3 pt. scale would usually take one more trick than under no-trump play. Interestingly, 3pts is the average point value Milton Work placed on the ace, king and queen. Out of this came the Combined Hand Equivalent Chart, a pure numeric point counting method equating points to tricks. Why more players today are not using it I find hard to comprehend. For the method takes the guess work out of bidding. It is common knowledge that card formations affect point count, yet are not considered apart of it. It would seem the card info incorporated with a bid would be useful if it's affect were known. Example: Under the 5 card Modern American Bidding System, when an opener opens with one of a major the strain is to have five cards. Knowing that and knowing whenever an opener's partner has four cards of the opening strain an additional trick can be taken, opener's partner can increase the response support bid by 3 pts. To date with the use of a computer software program I have documented thirteen card formations under trump play that affect point counting and eight under no-trump play. The majority having a one trick plus/minus affect. It is not my intent to convert players from their point counting method. Rather to inform, especially beginners, of a simpler more accurate method. For if I hadn't found this method for counting points, I would have giving bridge up shortly after I started nine years ago. :D

:blink: The following tips are predicated on a strain having a 5/3 footprint. Under trump play, on knowing the combined hands have a 5/4 footprint in a perspective trump strain, add 3 pts. to the hand's point count. Subtract 3 pts. from hand's point count on knowing a perspective trump strain will have less than three cards in one of the combined hands. Under no-trump play when a hand has two of the top four honors, the jack, the ten or both embedded amongst four or five cards of a strain, add 3 pts. to the hand's point count. Said calculations are made prior to making a bid and are intended to produce a more accurate point count to match-up against the Combined Hand Equivalent Chart* (points to tricks) to come up with the optimum bid level or pass. :wacko: *Do not know who to credit for it.

Yes.