bridgepali

:) I do.

B-) These type of illusions have been reported ever since Vanderbilt, his cronies and a French lass passed through the panama canal. As for making a game with 21 pts. or a small slam with 25 pts. it can't be done. Each scenario requires two more tricks at three points per trick to meet the challenge. A source for points lies in trick taking tactics like a fineesee, discard, etc. The taking of a trick, no matter the card involved, is worth 3 pts. the average value associated with preordained aces, kings and queens. Another source can be from trick taking card formations that are not recognized to be a point source, like each uncovered trump card when combined hands have >8 in the long hand and a minimum of three cards in the short hand. Another source can be a misplay by opponents. As for both partnerships having small slam hands, I can't offer a solution without some pondering. In a coming posting I address as to how card formations provide points.

:angry: MYOB :lol:

B-) My reason for being partial to 3 pts. is trick point values from the six bid levels range from 2.5 to 3.0. Rather than use a decimal number to divide by when need arises, I round off to three to determine points per trick. For in the end the ultimate test is, "with no misplays does a combined hand's point count match-up to it's declarer count. For if not something is amiss with point count gathering which I address in my next posting.

B-) I am not aware of any advantage "opening low" gives to bidding a hand. In the end it takes "X" points to take "Y" tricks. Thanks for the read.

:P Be careful.

B-) I just posted the first of two post as to how I view points for opening trump hands. Thanks for the reply. Apparently you have partners that know your playing methods.

:ph34r: Distribution point values are arbitrary, yet standardized through point count methods. One for a doubleton, two for a singleton, three for a void for short strains; one for each card over four for a long strain. During the 1970's some point count methods made the value of a void five points and a singleton three points which are in use today. High card points, distribution points and card formation points make-up a hand's point count (Refer to Talking Pts. X????). Through the Combined Hand Equivalent Chart, combined hand points are brought together to reflect the trick level that can be reached at auction. The closer a partnership can bid the combined hand point count to it's optimum point count, the better the chance of getting a makeable contract will be. It takes a minimum of 17 pts. with no misplays to make a one level trump bid, 20 pts. a two level, 23 pts. a three level, 26 pts. a four level, 29 pts. a five level, 32 pts. a six level, >35 pts. a seven level respectively. To verify the comparisons presented, select a completed dealt trump hand printed specimen without a bad trump split. Now, from declarer's position add-up the pre-ordained trick winners (Refer to Talking Pts. V??) held by opponents. Next, subtract the number of pre-ordained trick winners from thirteen. Now, subtract one point from the running total for each doubleton queen, singleton queen or king in the combined hands. Now, add/subtract one point respectively to/from the running total for each card formation held by the combined hands; the result being the number of natural tricks (Tricks not to be gotten by a trick taking tactics like a fineese or discard.) to be gotten. Now, using your point count method, add-up the hcpts. in the combined hands. Next, subtract three points for each doubleton queen, singleton queen or king in the combined hands from the running total. Next, add to the running total the combined hands distribution point count and then add/subtract three points respectively for each card formation held by each hand. Now, divide the resulting point count total by three, resulting the trick count total to be gotten without a trick taking tactic (Fineese, discard, etc.). When the trick count from the final count is greater than the trick count from declarer's count, the expectancy for making an overtrick exceeds seventy percent. When the trick count from the final point count is less than the trick count from declarer's count, either the point count method is bypassing distribution points, or card formation points are being excluded. I find a point count method of one for a doubleton, three for a singleton, five for a void for opener and responder along with three for a card formation to be on spot. B-) Watch for Talking Pts.XV???

:huh: Why?

:D I will and let you know.

:D The hands you refer to are demonstration hands. No matter the strain opener opens with, under the 5cMABBS and a point counting method similar in values to Roth or Goren being used, the number of tricks to be gotten are fixable and predictable when card play is without misplays. Thank you for the question.

You missed me. :rolleyes:

Thank you for the elaboration. B-)

:ph34r: Depending on the point count method used, you may be opening on twelve points instead of thirteen as called for under 5cMABBS for trump play. The Rule of Twenty reads: if hcpts. plus the number of cards in the two longest suits adds up to twenty or more, open the bidding. In other words, under Rule of Twenty a hand with eleven hcpts. or more and two strains of cards adding to nine can be opened due to that combination of hcpts. and cards providing thirteen plus points. This holds true except for the hand shapes 5-4-3-1, 5-4-3-2, 5-4-4-0 when used with the point count method put forth by the A.C.B.L., Kaplan and any other that calls for only distribution length points in the opening hand. For the instructions to do so are given through the point count method that determines a hand's distribution count, not a hand's shape. Hand shapes from a completed trump deal are made-up of doubletons, singletons and voids. Depending upon the shape of hand and the assigned value given the doubleton, singleton and void through the point count method in use, an additional twenty points can be added to a combined hand's point count for auction purposes. But when the point count method doesn't call for distribution short points from the opening hand, as the A.B.C.L. and Kaplan do, the point count from an opening hand is restricted to delivering one point from 5-4-X-X hand shapes. B-) Watch for Talking Pts. XV??

:( VIEWER'S NOTICE: Line two paragraph one has been altered for clarity.