cheers OvO

Yes 3C told you 4+C and so 5C told you 5+C for you to choose 5C or 5D to play. But that's a selfish way because he didn't know how about your spades. Maybe you would get a slam with a void？Why not ask for spade control or asking for keys？Your partner seemed not to know cooperation. He didn't know how good your hand would be just after invm but stop at 5-level just because he had no interest in slams. One with a nice hand playing invm tries to test how strong the opener is while your p was playing his own bridge. Anyway, the opposite hand seemed not so strong and so did yours. Stop at 5D for a safe game. Notice that the opener was stronger at diamonds or he would open 1C.

1S isn't a bid worse than 2H/3H because west may find a better fit if east has 4support. After east bids a new suit to show a good hand which is not so strong, west has to stop at 4H immediately with not so good distribution but 3support and 10hcp only and to indicate that you have 4H(he knows you have 25+pts) but he has no interest in slams. So I suggest the process：1H-1S-2D-4H. Some readers may dislike 2D weaker than a general reverse because 3jacks are the most useless honors, but it's more acceptable in relaxed discussion. After north plays the 3rd round club, south seems to have another doubleton. If you ignore the trumping, you will get down if you can't draw HQ or DK. We must try a safer play. And we have to think about the distribution of trumps： (1) There is no hope for you with 5-5-3-0 (2) With weird hand like 5-4-3-1(especially Qxxx&x on opps) and void spade and void diamond, it will go too far in this relaxed discussion. But you can go to advanced+ area to ask for more perfect plays. (3) With 5-3-3-2, it's much easier to draw all the trumps. But it doesn't say it's so easy to make 4H. Here we take 4 situations into account. (south/north) a. Qx/xxx b. xxx/Qx c.Qxx/xx d.xx/Qxx As I have said you had best not ignore the trumping of 3rd round club, I suggest you play HJ. If south trumps by HQ in situation a and situation c, you will make 4H however they defend. Otherwise north has HQ in situation b and situation d. And then I suggest you play HA and then H10. In situation d, HQ becomes your 3rd loser but then you can play SK, SQ and then play the cross on trump to dummy for spades. But in situation b, HQ becomes your 3rd loser and then north may play the 4th round club for one more possible trumping by south. At this position the only hope for you is to play H8 and then you will get down with H9 on south；Otherwise you will still make it. The pholosophy of my play is to save a cross on trumps to dummy to prevent the distribution of spades is 5-4-2-2 with 10xxx/xx on opps and so you can't run away the possible loser on diamonds unless you draw DK on north. Some players may play HA and then HK, but in situation c and situation d they will get 3rd loser immediately and so they will be more likely to get down unless they get 5-5-3-3 spades or 5-4-4-2 with 10x/xxxx on opps.

I was reminded with michael not because he suggested it but due to his words "2-suited". I have seen in a vulgraph match a national player used michael with good 5-4 highers which I remembered was a little weaker than my AKQXX AKXX. The pholosophy of this way is that greater suits with greater hcp can compensate the shorter highers. So I don't know if your comments are recommended by real experts. But at least you always gave a full reason, not like fourdad just to dig who is wrong but couldn't provide constructive explanation. And helene_t, please notice my initial question before criticizing willfully just because I didn't give more thanks to you !

Oh Vampyr, you seemed not to check all comments carefully. He kept indicating that I was wrong to ignore the double he considered the best bid just because I wouldn't get too high. But the reason was far away from that because, as I have said above, other ways posted above wouldn't go too far, either. And I got the risky contract mainly due to my misunderstanding on 3S. Also as you mentioned, he failed to explain why doubleton clubs would be accepted while Stephen Tu provided a situation to show why it's still agreeable. After I asked for constructive advices and then he couldn't fully prove his better way of bidding, he was not so good a teacher as he thought but was still another learner here. If one wants more respect from others, he shall do something more respectable. My attitude is obvious, "no arrogance with ignorance otherwise you deserve no respect."

Oh fourdad, nobody deserved to accept your comments fully. You needed to be more open-minded and try a little humility when you couldn't explain your way well. The double could be better description of my hand than an overcall not because I wouldn't get so high and probably get 4S. By other ways discussed above, I would still get 4S so long as I read 3S correctly. So in fact you failed to give a full reason. Please take a look at what Stephen Tu said "The scenario you are avoiding by doubling rather than overcalling is 1d-(1s)-all pass when you have game on. Because a one level overcall can be rather weak (7/8 pts), responder is not going to respond with all 6/7/8 counts like he would if you had opened the bidding, because it's dangerous to jack up the bidding on a possible misfit when both players aren't very strong. Responder might have a 2524 7 count and have no sensible bid over 1s other than pass, and then you have missed 4." Now I give more thanks to 1eyedjack for reminding me michael, Stephen Tu for the reason of double, awkhoo for this comment "At unfavorable (vulnerability), without any singletons, 3♠ is a little risky, so I might only bid 2."

Oh how nice your comments arehttp://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif Yes some bid double at that position, and I was reminded some prefer 2D with nice highers like my AKxxx AKxx although michael plays at least 5-5 generally. I missed the great idea from the beginning to the end！

Thanks to all except fourdad. Double would be take-out showing 3+cards on all the others suits. I think we have learned the most basic bidding when we were beginners. And 2NT for responce would show a balanced hand with 13-15hcp. In conclusion, what would be the most popular bid with 4support + 10-12pts? 2D? I got to know 3S when I was learing SAYC before bergen and the law.

Thanks for all advices. But my real question is still about what 3S means. As you all know, 2S shows 3support with 6-10pts so 3S as preempt shows below 6pts(and 4support). But I can also bid 3S with 4support and 10-12pts, and 3D shows a much stronger hand maybe with 17pts. How do you know what your p means？That's why I added a choice "It needs agreement with your p". rd bid 3S just after 2D and I thought he tried to show the later meaning(10-12) by that active tempo. As I held AK both in highers, his 1st(and 2nd if needed) answer to rkcb asking for keys might be 1st(2nd) round controls on minors so I gave up with cue bid suggested by Stephen Tu.

http://tinyurl.com/qbrzy5p As you all can see now, rd bid 3s and I tried slams. He then answered 5c after we agreed to play his rkcb0314. Althought I stopped at 5s, I still got down because I failed to draw QJX on opp. Just after the lead, I said "5pts???" and then he explained it as a limit raise. He kept on to say I should have bid a double rather than the overcall. What's more, he said "wd idiot p" when he found the contract was going down. Anyway, his answer should be 5d due to clubA and I preferred 2s to 3s. But now I want to listen to more constructive advices.