bravejason

Playing Standard American, an uncontested auction begins: 1D - 1H 1S - Responder has 4 or more spades. How does responder: 1. show a weak hand and a desire to stop bidding? 2. show more than a minimum, but not enough to invite game? 3. invite game? 4. force to game? 5. show slam interest?

Thanks. That was very educational. I hadn’t thought about it as a forcing pass concept.

In some competitive auctions, responder’s pass shows a hand that is strong (or not weak) whereas responder’s double shows a weak hand. Does anyone know why it is this way as opposed to the other way around? I know the other way around is played, but standard or more common method seems to be that pass=strong and double=weak. I’m looking for history lesson more than anything else, but would also be curious to know the pros/cons of each.

I once read a comment to the effect of ‘you can’t discard trump losers’, suggesting that it is better to have the stronger suit as trump. It seems to me that one should prefer the weaker suit as trumps on the basis that weak trump cards can still win tricks via ruffing whereas weak side suit cards always lose. That said, I’ve seen hands where I wished one was the other and vice versa. So, the best thing I’ve found to do is not worry about it and just let the cards fall where they may. It’d be better, of course, to figure out during the bidding which suit should be trump and which should be the side suit and bid accordingly, but I’ve no idea how one would go about doing that considering that the exactly which cards held by partner are unknown and the exact number of cards held is often unknown too.

Maybe a card is cut off in some browsers? I see only 12 cards too: 10 to 4; 9 & 7; and 8, 7, & 3.

Pass. Maybe partner will bid again and give us some more information about her hand.

After an auction start such as 1C - 1H 1S - 2D (FSF) Assume FSF is game forcing (Don’t some people play it as less than game forcing?). How does opener show extra values? How does opener show minimal values? How does Responder do the same?

I would have passed. With 5 clubs in your hand either the opponents will exhaust their trumps pulling yours and then partners high cards clean up or the opponents will expend trumps ruffing partner’s high cards and then your trumps are winners. When your side declares, it can only be played from partners hand due to the lack of high cards in your hand. It’s tough to play from one hand only unless it has a running suits because there is no way to attack a suit from the opposite hand or finesse an otherwise badly placed opposing high card.

Wondering if anyone could provide a summary of standard or common meaning of doubles and cue bids when the bid being doubled or cue’ed is artificial. For example, doubles of artificial bids are often lead directing, but sometimes not. When is it lead directing versus other? Another example, is there a difference between cue bidding a bid that was purely artificial (e.g., Precision 1 Club) versus one that shows specifics suit(s) (e.g., Jacoby transfer)?

This is harsh. What specifically is the issue for you? You mentioned minor suit structure, but didn’t elaborate on what you felt was wrong.

What does west’s 2C bid mean?

Since 3NT describes the hand, I think you have to bid it. Yes, it effectively uses two levels of bidding space, but that’s a different issue.

North has a nice hand, but when South could do nothing but make a simple rebid of hearts despite knowing North had a strong two-suiter, maybe North should just pass.

You misunderstood my comment about proper. I meant that in the context of the definition. I used ‘proper’ to try to clarify that I was referencing the GF version, not the limit raise. I’ve always understood that the reason for a direct game forcing raise, even in 2/1, is to differentiate trump support. 2/1 GF followed by support for opener is three card trump support. Jacoby 2NT shows four card trump support while also being game forcing. Similarly the direct raise is limited and shows four card support and the delayed raise via 1NT is limited and three card support. Could 2NT used be used better? Possibly. Though I think that if I were to use it show something else, I’d use it to show a balanced, invitational hand.

My first thought was ‘what does a 2NT limit raise gain over other methods?’ A couple of the responses noted some of the benefits, though I’m not seeing enough value there to offset the loss of proper Jacoby 2NT. After a limit 2NT, opener has to delay and responder spends two bids explaining what could have been said in one bid. Perhaps you save some space in a limit raise auction, but it seems like you give it back in a game forcing auction.

I prefer to stick to standard treatment and just bid to the appropriate level of no trump. To memorize a system for a set of hands that occur rarely just doesn’t seem practical to me unless you are a very experienced player who plays all the time.

With 2/1 GF and reversing not showing extra strength it seems the auction should go: 1D - 2C 2H - 2N 3S - 3N South has a nice hand, but doesn’t have a fit for North’s suits. North obviously doesn’t like no trump. So what else can South do but end the auction? In Standard, I think it’s easier since the auction starts 1D - 2C 2N - At this point south can estimate the points. It’s 31 HCP at most. Sure, South can throw in some extra points for the tens or suit quality or whatever, but south has no shape and north chose a no trump rebid over raising clubs so there no club fit either. Again, I don’t see any choice other than 3N and end the auction. You could bid 4N instead, but that strikes me as a pleasant fantasy rather an impartial assessment of the situation.

Playing SAYC or similar, the bidding begins 1 minor - (1 suit) - 1NT . By 1 suit, I mean an overcall at the one level in any permissible suit. What sort of shape and strength should 4th seat have in order to bid assuming 4th seat does not have the support necessary to raise partners overcall? What is the meaning of double? I left the bidding generic because I’m interested in the general bidding principles for this type of auction.

It’s a strange thing - so much emphasis on finding a major suit fit and handling major suit fits (Stayman, Jacoby 2NT, et al) and yet the first thing opener does with a 4 card major is conceal it by opening a minor suit and thus force responder to guess what song to sing.

I guess I’m a conservative bidder because East’s hand does not look like a 1S bid to me. I see the hand strength as between a 1S opener and a weak 2S opener. So, I’d have passed initially as East. I think West had enough for the 2/1 response. As for the bidding, I think East should have bid 4C instead of 3S. If East had a second suit, it could have been shown on the re-bid instead of 2S, and thus West would have known that 4C only showed three clubs.

Playing standard American methods, in the sequence Pass-(1 suit)-1NT-(X) What is the usual meaning of the double? I'm thinking that the double shows a hand with points but that lacks direction and is also unable to directly support partner's suit (perhaps a 4-4-3-2 shape with the doubleton as support). If opener chooses to bid, are opener's bids natural or do Stayman & Transfer bids still apply? What would be usual meaning of redouble? I guessing the redouble would be asking partner for a suit.

When is a no trump bid the unusual no trump showing the two lower ranking unbid suits and when does it show a generic ‘two places to play’?

Using Standard American principles. Given a bidding sequence such as 1S - 2D 2N Or 1H - 2C 2N What does opener’s 2 no trump re-bid mean? I’ve always understood it to show a minimum balanced hand, but I have seen some comments that it is actually a strong bid. If it is strong, how does opener bid holding a minimum hand with 5332 distribution and where the 5 card suit is a major and opener has 2 card support for responder’s suit? Should opener ever support responder with three card support instead of re-bidding 2NT? If so, when?

I add for length only if the suit contains an honor or if partner has bid or supported the suit. The rationale is that if partner can’t bid or support the suit and the suit lacks an honor, then it may not be possible to win a trick in that suit and thus those cards are not contributing to the strength of the hand. Other (better?) players might decide that they can turn those long small cards into tricks and thus consider that a contribution to the strength of the hand by adding points for it. Precedence of Rule of 20 versus length points is using two systems at once, in my opinion. So the question isn’t priority, it is which system? As another poster alluded to, you need a system or method for hand evaluation. There are a number of methods available from books and online material. I experimented with different methods until I found one that worked for me. Try one for a a while, then try another, and so on until you find something that you like. Note that any system or method of hand evaluation can be made simpler or more complex. The Rule of 20 that people simply think of as HCP plus count of cards in two longest suits can be expanded to properly reject hands that on the surface are a Rule of 20 hands, but are actually not good hands to open. Similarly, the old Goren system that people think of simply as 4-3-2-1 & 3-2-1 was more complex than that. Clearly, expanding a simple approach adds complexity and requires you to remember more, but the benefit is a more accurate hand evaluation. You have to find your own sweet spot between simplicity and accuracy.

I’m stumped, even with Badgers clue. The only line of play I could find was to win the diamond lead, play the heart queen, and then play North’s remaining heart honors until one of them wins. However, this doesn’t work because there aren’t enough entries to North unless East plays the king on the first round of hearts.